MARSHAL: PLEASE RISE. HEAR YE.HEAR YE.HEAR YE.THE SUPREME COURT OF FLORIDAIS NOW IN SESSION. ALL WHO HAVE CAUSE TO PLEA, DRAW NEAR , GIVE ATTENTION AND YOU SHALL BE H EARD . GOD SAVE T HESE UNITED STATES, THE GREAT STATE OF FLORIDA AND THIS HONORA BLE COURT. LADIES AND GENTLE MEN , THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT.PLEASE BE SE ATED.

CHIEF JUSTICE: G OOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.WELCOME TO THE FLORIDASUPREME COURT. THIS IS QUITE A FORMIDABLE GROUP THAT WE HAVE HERE IN FRONT OF US. WE WILL CALL --

JUSTICE: HOW M ANY CHALLENGES DO WE HAVE?

CHIEF JUSTICE: WE ARE CALLING THE FI RST CASE OF IN RE AMENDMENTS TO THE RULES OF THE FLORIDA BAR, CHAPTER 11 TASK FORCE , AND BEFORE WE START I UNDERSTAND THAT THEBAR WA JTS TO TA KE -- WANTS TO TAKE TEN MINUTES AND THE BOARD OF EXAMINERS TEN MINUTES AND THEN OPPONENTSW ILL USE THE OTHER 20 MINUTES.WE STILL HAVE THE SUGGESTION THAT YOU MIGHT W ANT TO SAVE SOME OF YOUR 20 MINUTES, SO THAT WE CAN AFTER HEARING FROM THE OTHER SIDE, BE A BLE TO ASK YOU ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS. I THINK WE MAY HAVE ESPECIALLY FOR THE BOARD O F BAR EXAMINERS, SOME ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS, SO MR . RUSH, IF YOU WOULD BEGIN.

THANK YOU. MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT. IN RESPONSE TO CONCERNS RAISED BY JUSTICE LEWIS , THEFLORIDA BAR D OES A REVIEW AND PROVIDES REVISIONS ON TO CHAPTER 11.

CHIEF JU STICE: L ET ME CLARIFY. IT IS N OT

JUSTICE:TIS L OUIS THAT HAD CONCERNS BUT WE AS -- IT IS NO T JUST JUST ICE L E WIS THAT HAD CONCERNS BUT WE AS A COURT .

JUSTICE: CAN YOU EX PLORE THAT FURTHER, THEN, IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU PERCEIVE THEPROBLEM TO BE AND THEN HOW YOU ALL HAVE GONE AB OUT ADDRESSING IT. I THINK FIRST , IT IS IMPORTANT TO DISCUSS THE PERCEPTION OF WHAT THEPROBLEM OR IS SUE IS, BEFORE WE DISCUSS THE PROPOSED REMEDIES.

THERE WAS NOT ONLY A PERCEPTION PROBLEM , BUTTHERE WERE PE OPLE PRACTICING AS IN TERNS WHO WO ULD NEVERPASS THE CHARACTER AND FITNESS P ORTION OF THE FLORIDA BAR. THAT BECA ME, CA ME TO THE ATTENTION OF SE VERAL PEO PLE, AND THAT IS WHAT BROUGHT THEFIRST ISSUE OF CONCERN REGARDING HOW PEOP LE ARE B EING CHECKED WH O ARE THEN ACTUALLY OUT THERE PRACTICING AS ATTORNEYS , WITH SUPERVISION .

JUSTIC E: ARE WE TALKING A BOUT ANECDOTALLY OR A RE WE TALKING ABOUT SOME IDENTIFICATION OF NUMBERS OR LOCATIONS?

ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE ON LY. PEOPLE WHO HAD CRIMINAL OFFENSES , FELONY OFFENSES , THAT HAD NOT REPORTED THAT , HAD NOT FI LED ANY APPLICATION TO THE FLORIDA BAR , RE ALLY HAD NOT DISCLOSED THAT EVEN TO THEIR LAW SCHOOL D EANS OR I N THEIR LAW SCHOOL APPL ICATION .

JUSTICE: WE ARE FAMILIAR AT THE COURT FOR IN STANCE , DIRECTLY WI TH A COU PLE OF INSTANCES IN WHICH W E HAD INTERNS AT THE COURT, AND WE WERE SURPRISED TO DISCOVER , FOR INSTANCE , CRIMINAL RECORDS AND FOR SERIOUS OFFENSES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT I AM INTERESTED IN WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS A WIDER SURVEY DONE AFTER THIS ISSUE WAS PROVIDED , SO THAT WE COULD SEE W H ETHER THIS IS A WIDESPREAD ISSUE THAT NEEDS THE KIND OF ADDRESSING THAT YOU ALL HAVE PROPOSED , SO WAS ANYTHING LIKE THAT D ONE?

NO, SIR. WHAT WE DID, WHAT WE FO CUSED ON WAS WHAT IS THE MECHANISM FOR BACKGROUND CHECKS THAT IS IN PLACE , RATHER THAN WHAT ARE THE SPECIFIC INSTANCES THAT PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING OF AND WHAT WE FOUND WAS THERE REALLY WAS NO SYSTEM WIDE BACKGROUND CHECKS THAT WERE BEING APPLIED. FOR EX AMPLE , SOME OF THE S TATE ATTORNEYS OFF ICES DO EXCELLENT JOBS AND THOROUGH BACKGROUND CHEC KS BECAUSETHEY HAVE THE RESOURCES. MOST LE GAL AID ORGANIZATION S , NO BACKGROUND CHECKS WHATSOEVER . A LOT OF THE PUBLIC DEFENDERS OFFICES DID BACKGROUND CHECKS .

CHIEF JUSTICE: WHAT ABOUTAT THE LAW SCHOOLS? DID YOU FIND THAT LAW SCHOOLS WERE CERTIFYING PEOPLE AND HAD DONE NO BACKGROUND CHECKS THEMSELVES?

THE LAW SCHOOLS WERE NOT IN THE BACKGROUND CHECK BUSINESS, AND THEY WERE NOT DOING ANY OF THOSE CHECKS.

SO YOUR PROP OSAL IS THAT EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO PARTICIPATE IN ONE OF THESE CLINICAL T YP E PROGRAMS WOULD REGISTER FOR THE FLORIDA BAR.

YES, YOUR HO NOR.

JUSTICE: AND WOULD THAT REGISTRATION PROCESS INCLUDE COMPLETING THE ENTIRE APPLICATION FOR THE FLORIDA BAR, OR IS THERE SOME UNLIMITED FORM THAT THEY WOULD COMPLETE ?

NO. THE PROPOSAL IS THAT THEY WOULD COMPLETE A F ULL FLORIDA BAR APPLICATION WITH A LL OF THE SAME REQUIREMENTS, AND IF THEY WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE INTERN PROGRAM , THEY NE ED TO GETTHAT IN E ARLY ENOUGH S O THAT THEY CAN GET THEIR IN ITIAL CLEARANCE LE TTER, AND WE FELT THAT THAT REALLY WAS A UNIFORM STATEWIDE ME THOD OF ADDRESSING THIS PROBLEM , BECAUSE THE FLORIDA BAR BOARD OF EXA MINERS ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF DOING THIS. THEY HAVE BEEN DOING IT. THEY DO THAT AN EXCELLENT JOB WITH IT .

JUSTICE: WHAT DO YOU ANTS PATE WOULD B E THE -- ANTICIPATE WOULD BE THE ADDITIONAL NU MBER OF REGISTRATION APPLICATIONTHAT IS WOULD COME THROUGHTHE FLORIDA BAR BOARD OF EXAMINERS THAN WHAT THEYHAVE NOW. WHAT DO YOU ANTICIPATE THAT WOULD BE?

I DO NOT KNOW THAT NUMBER BUT BAR EXAM INERS COULD ADDRESS THAT MORE SPECIFICALLY, YOUR HONOR.

JUSTICE: AND FROM WHAT Y OU ARE S A YING THE FLORIDABOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS SAYS THEY CAN HAVE THESE BACKGROUND CHECKS DONE WITHIN THREE MONTHS OF THE APPLICATION?

APPROXIMATELY.

JUSTICE: WHAT DOES A NORMAL APPL ICATION P E RIOD TAKE?

THE NO RMAL APPLICATION PERIOD WOULD BE ABOUT THESAME. THE RE WOULD BE NO DIFFERENCE IN THE LENGTH OF TIME. THE PROBLEM OCCURS WITH STUDENTS WHO DO NOT SU BMIT THEIR APPLICATION IN THEIR FIRST YEAR O R EVEN THEIR SECOND YEAR , NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT THAT THE BAR EXAMINERS GET A GREATLY REDUCED FE E FOR PEOPLE WHO APPLY EA RLY. A LOT OF PEOPLE DO NOT, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT WAS BROUGHT TO THECOMMITTEE THAT WE HAD TO ADDRESS, THAT I BELI EVE SOME OF THE OTHER SPEAKERS TO DAY WILL ADDRESS, IS THAT IT MAY A FFECT SOME PEOPLE WHO DON'T G ET THE WORD WHO DO NOT APPLY IN TIME EARLY EN OUGH, SO THAT THEY GET THE CLEARANCE LETTER, SO THAT THEY CAN SAY I WANT TO BE A LITIGATE OR. I WANT TO WOR K AT THE PU BLIC DEFENDERS OFFICE.

JUSTICE: WOULD IT I MPACT OUT-OF-STATE STUDENTS?

IT WOULD BUT WE FOUND THOSE NUMBERS TO BE TOO SMALL. S INGLE DI GIT NUMBERS EVE RY SINGLE YEAR. THREE , FIVE , S EVEN , FOR PEOPLE WHO WERE I N AN OUT-OF-STATE LAW SCHOOL.

JUSTICE: WAS ANY THOUGHT GIVEN TO A, SOME ARE THESORT OF P ILOT PROG RAM ? TO ST UDY THE EVENT OF THIS , TAKE ONE CIR CUIT OR ONE OFFICE .

AS TO A PILOT PROGRAM, WE F ELT REALLY THIS IS FA IRLY STRAIGHT FORWARD. THERE ARE ISSUES THAT YOU WANT TO DECIDE AS TO WHICH --

JUSTICE: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE BAR WHO TAKE IT THEFIRST TI ME OUT OF LAW SCHOOL THAT PEOPLE PRESENTLY APPLY E ARLY ?

I PRE FER THE BAR EXAMINERS ANSWER THAT , Y OUR HONOR.

CHIEF JUSTICE: MAYBE SIN CE WE HAVE QUESTIONS UNIQUE LY RE LATED TO THE BAR EXAMINERS , SI NCE WE HAVE NO UNIFORM MECHANISM FOR BACKGROUND CHECKS.THE COURT IS UNIQUELY UN ABLE TO DO THIS , A ND WE HAVE, THERE FOR WE HAVE NO ORGANIZED SY STEM, AND THIS WOULD BE A SIMPLE ORGANIZED S YSTEM .

YES .

JUSTICE: IF YOU APPLY EARLY , YOU P AY $75 FOR THIS REGISTRATION .

CHIEF JUSTICE: THE BOA RDOF BAR EXAMINERS HA S THAT INFORMATION AND NOT THE BAR , SO, COR RECT? YOU HAVE , I DON'T WANT , MR . POBJECKY, DO YOU WANT TO ANSWER T HE QUES TIONS ABOUT THE BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS? IS THERE ANYT HING ELSE, MR . RUSH?

I WILL BR IEFLY GO OVER THE OTHER AREAS OF THE RULE. THE SE COND PA RT IS THAT LEGAL AID ORGANIZATIONS WOULD HAVE T O PROVIDE LEGAL SERVICES EXCLUSIVELY FOR INDIGENT PEOPLE. WE GOT VARIOUS COMMENTS ONTHAT.

CHIEF JUSTICE: I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THAT ONE , BUT M AYBE WE WILL WAIT. I KNOW PALM BE AC H COU NTY L EGAL AID, FOR EXAMPLE , HAS ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY BUT THEY GET SOME GRANTS THAT REQUIRE THEM TO SE RVICE , LIKE , ELDERLY WITHOUT INCOME BASIS.I WOULD BE VERY CONCERNED , MAYBE THE LEGAL AID ORGANIZATIONS HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THOSE AS TO THIS EXCLUSIVELY LY REQUIREMENT. WHAT WAS THAT MEANT TO ADDRESS ?

APPARENTLY THERE WERE SOME AGEN CIES THAT WERE HAD GONE FAR A FIELD OF JUST PROVIDING IN DIGENT LEGALSERVICES.

CHIEF JUSTICE: WHY WOULDN'T PREDOMINATELY BE A GOOD SOLUTION FOR THAT ?

WELL , T HEY COULD EX PAND INTO MORE COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISES.THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE WHO CONDUCTED BUS INESS AND HAD SOME INTERNS THAT WERE WORKING.

CHIEF JUSTICE: AND THETHIRD PART?

THE THIRD PART IS IF YOU DID NOT PASS THE BAR EXAM ON FIRST TRY, YOU WOULD BE OUT OF THE PROGRAM. THAT ADD ITION RECEIVED A LOT OF COMMENT, PARTICULARLY THEFACT THAT THE RULE AS IT CURRENTLY STANDS G IVES YOU O NE YEAR , AND THERE IS A LOT OF SENTIMENT THAT GIVES MA NY REASONS OF WHY SOMEONE MAY F AIL THE BAR EXAM THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COMPETENCE. FAMILY TRAG EDY , ILLNESS , SOME OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE , AND THEY WOULD STILL RE MAIN STATUS QUO AS AN INTERN WORKING WITH IN AN ORGANIZATION, BEING SUPERVISED AND THEREFORE IF THEY FAILED IT ONCE THEY STILL HAVE A N OTHER OPPORTUNITY NORMALLY WITHIN THAT ONE YEAR TO TAKE IT A SECOND TIME AND PASS I T .

JUSTICE: S HOULD WE THEN MODIFY THE RULE WITH RE GARD TO OUT-OF-STATE LAWYERS , BECAUSE THEY CURRENTLY MUST TAKE THE FIRST BAR EXAM AS THE STUDENTS DO , AND IF THEY DO NOT PASS IT , THEY CANNOT CONTINUE IN THAT P OSITION , SO SHOULD W E CHANGE THAT AS WELL? BEC AUSE THOSE PEOPLE HAVE PASSED THE BAR IN SOME STATE. S HOULD WE LIBERALIZE THAT RULE, THEN, BEC AUSE THESE TWO RU LES DO NOT MATCH.

NO , YOUR HON OR. I THINK THE DIFFERENCE REALLY SH OULD BE THE LEVEL OF SUPERVISION FOR A STUDENT INTERN AS CONTRASTED WITH AN OUT-OF-STATE ATTORNEY .

JUSTICE: WE DON'T HAVE ANY REQUIR EMENTS ON SUPERVISION WITH REGARD TO SPECIFICS OR ANYTH ING LIKE THAT . THAT IS THE PROBLEM WE GET INTO AND WE HAVE GOT DEFEND E RSAN LEGAL AID FOLKS -- DEFENDERS AND LEGAL AID FOLKS HAVING DEFENDERSREPRESENT THEM.I AM TRYING TO DE TERMINE WHY THERE SHOULD BE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TW O, IF THERE IS SOME R ATIONAL THAT -- RATIONALE THAT WE SHOULD DO DIFFERENTLY IF SOMEONE HAS N EVER PASSED THE BAR.

I THIN K THE MENTORING PROGRAM IS PART OF IT, AND ITHINK THAT IS PART OF THE VALUE OF THE PR OGRAM , AND THAT IS WHY I THINK IT IS NOT ESSENTIAL IF SOMEONE DOES NOT PASS IT THE FIRST TIME THAT THEY ARE CLOSE. A S I SAY, THERE MAY BE MANY REASONS AND I THINK THE BAR CAN GIVE YOU MANY FIGURES. MOST PEOPLE PASS IT THE NEXT TIME.

JUSTICE: ARE YOU SURE THEY PASS IT THE SECOND TIME?

OVER 50 PERCENT THE SECOND TIME THAT TOOK IT , YOUR HONOR.

CHIEF JUSTICE: IF YOUWANT TO C EDE YOUR TIME. WE HAVE LOTS OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU, AS YOU CAN SEE.

MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT . TOM POBJECKY APPEARING FOR THE FLORIDA BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS .

CHIEF JUSTICE: YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE FEE SCHEDULE.

I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE REGISTRATION. I K NOW YOU CAN PAY $7 5 IF YOU DO IT IN YOUR FIRST YEAR OF LAW SCHOOL , CORRECT?

WITHIN 180 DAYS OF THE COMMENCEMENT OF YOUR E DUCATION.

JUSTICE: SO IF YOU REGISTER AND GET INTO LAWSCHOOL AND DECI DE IN YOUR SECOND YEAR THAT YOU WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN ONE OF THESEPROGRAMS, WHAT DOES THE PERSON PAY THEN TO REGISTER FOR THE FLORIDA BAR?

IF YOU DON'T FILE WITHIN THE FIRST 250 D AYS, THEN YOUPAY THE STAN DARD REGULAR F EE. WE DISCOUNT IT IF YOU FILE WITHIN THE FIRST 250 DAYS. I T WOULD B E $ 5 ON 0 IF YOU WAITED UN TIL YOUR -- $5 00 IF YOU WA ITED UNT IL YOUR SECOND Y EAR.

JUSTICE: EVEN A PERSON WHO HAS NO P LANS TO PRACTICE LAW IN FLORIDA WOULD HAVE TO PAY THIS FEE IN OR DE R TO PARTICIPATE IN THE CLINICAL PROGRAM.

AS A RULE.

CHIEF JUSTICE: S INCE WE REGULATE THE BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS RESPECT WE COULDL OOK, IT SEEMS LIKE FEET STRUCTURE IS WHERE THE HANG-UP IS , BECAUSE $75 IS A GREAT DEAL , AND SOMEBODY SUGGESTED SOMETHING, WELL, THEY CAN GET AN F DL E BACKGROUND CHECK BUT THAT COSTS $ 100 , AND WHAT I LIKE A BOUT THIS RULE IS THAT THERE IS UNI FORMITY , BUT IAM NOT SO SURE THAT WE CAN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM BY UNDERSTANDING WHY THE FEE STRUCTURE HAS TO BE THAT WAY. IN OTHER WORDS, COULD WE EXTAND IT MORE THAN 180 DAYS, IF SOMEBODY INDICATES THEIR INTENT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE CLINICAL PROGRAM , OR I F YOU HAVE SOMEONE F ROM OUT-OF-STATE THAT IS N'T EVER PLANING TO PRACTICE IN FLORIDA, THEN WE HAVE A DIFFERENT FEE STRUCTURE , SAY $150 FOR THEM , JUST FOR THE PURPOSE OF DOING THE BACKGROUND CHECK. H AVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT ALTERNATE FEE STRUCTURES THAT WOULD STILL BE ECONOMICAL FOR THE BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS?

THE BOARD HASN'T GIVEN THAT THOUGHT. THEY WERE JUST, THEY ADDRESSED THE ISSUE OF WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE CAPABLE OF DOING THIS AS PROPOSED IN THE RULE , AND WE REPRESENTED IN OUR COMMENTS AND I A M HERE TO AFFIRM THAT A GAIN TODAY , YES , WE ARE. WE HAVE BEEN PROCESSING LAWSCHOOL APPLICATIONS FOR OVER 40 YEARS.

CHIEF JUSTICE: SO IT SEEMS LIKE THE ANSWER TO SOME OF THESE COMPLAINTS WOULD BE TO REALLY LO OK AT WHETHER , WITHOUT LO SING MONEY , THE BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS COULD TAKE AT LEAST FOR THE OUT-OF-STATE PEOPLE THAT AREN'T EVER PLANING TO TAKE THE BAR , WHETHER THEY WOULD HAVE TO PAY $500, ALTHOUGH AGAIN, AND I WILL TALK TO LAWSCHOOLS ABOUT THIS, KNOWING WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TO PAY TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL , IT DOESN'TSEEM LIKE AN OTHER COUPLE OF HUNDRED DOLL ARS IS GOING T O BE --

THAT WOULD BE MY PO INT . LEGAL E DUCATION COST S UPWARDS OF $40,000 PER YEAR AND A LOT OF PEOPLE SEEM TO BE SAYING THE $75 IS GOINGTO BREAK THEIR BACK.

JUSTICE: OF COURSE MY RECENT EXPERIENCE WITH M Y CHILDREN APPLYING IS THAT IT IS NOT JUST, IT IS NOT JUST MON EY. AS THEY S AY, IT IS THE FOR MS. GOING BACK TO PRENATAL CARE --

WELL , I CAN A S SURE YOU IS A LOT BE TTER THAN WHEN YOU AND I APPLIED, BECAUSE WE DID , W E U SED TO IN THE PAST,WHEN WE APPLIED, HAD TO SA Y WHERE , GIVE A SPECIFIC ADDRESS WHERE WE L I VE, ANDNOW YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT UNTI L THE LAST T H REE YEARS AND YOU HAVE TO JUST TELL THE CI TIES. ONE WOULD HOPE THAT YOU CANREMEMBER THE CIT IES YOU LIVED IN, IN YOUR LIFE .

JUSTICE: IN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION THAT I POSED TO MR . RUSH , WHAT PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE APPLYERLYY? ANOTHER FIGURES FROM THE TEN LAW SCHOOLS THIS PAST YEAR , THERE WERE 2500 FIRST-YEAR STUDENTS AND I THINK 8080 OR SO APPLIED UP FRO NT, SO 30 PERCENT .

JUSTICE: APPLIED EARLY.

JUSTICE: COUNSEL , I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE $500 BECAUSE AS THIS WAS CONTEMPLATED, IT WAS NOT THEDESIGN. IT WAS NOT DESIGNED T O NEGATIVELY IMPACTED THE EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE NOR THE INDIVIDUALS AVAILABLE AROUND THE STATE, AND IF IT CAN'T BE DONE IN ANOTHERFASHION, BECAUSE THERE AREGOING TO BE PEOPLE THAT APPLY IN THE SECOND YEAR.THAT IS A FA CT, AND I HAVE ACONCERN ABOUT THAT , AND WOULD IT BE APPROPRIATE TO ASK THAT THEY SUPPLEMENT THEIR BR IEF? BECAUSE THAT WILL MAKE IN MY MIND, WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE AS TO HOW WE APPROACH THIS.

CHIEF JUSTICE: IN OTHERWORDS, I GUESS THE FIRST , WHAT WE DON'T KNOW IS , IF YOU SAID THIS HAS TO BE A REQUIREMENT IN ORDER T O , THAT IS YOU HAVE TO PASS THE BAR , NOT PASS THE BAR BUT APPLY WHETHER THE PERCENTAGE WOULD GO UP , BECAUSE THEREWOULD BE, THEN, THE INCENTIVE THAT T HIS EVENING THERE IS ANY CHANCE OF APPLYING FOR $75 , BU T MAYBE WE COULD HAVE A , THOSE THAT ARE PARTICIPATING IN A CLINICAL PROGRAM SAY AN AMOUNT OF $200, SOMETHING THAT AGAIN WOULD STILL BE AN INCENTIVE BUT WOULDN'T PUT WHERE THEY ARE APPLYI NG AT THE END OF THEIR THIRD YEAR WHERE THERE IS REALLY THE CRUNCH, SO IS THAT SOMETHING? I GUESS IF WE A SK YOU TO DO IT.

WE CAN EXPLOR E IT , AS YOU KNOW ALL THE FEES ARESUBJECT TO THE RULES, SUBJECT TO YOUR APPROVAL, SO IF YOU ASK US TO DO THAT , YOU ALL REALIZE THAT IT IS TOTALLY SUPPORTED BY APPLICANT FEES.

JUSTICE: BUT AT THE SAMETIME IT MUST BE SOMETHING THAT IS WORK ABLE , PRACTICABLE AND REAL ISTIC AND IT IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A FEE POSITIVE KIND O F CIRCUMSTANCE.

SO IF WE MAK E AN ADJUSTMENT FOR THE SE COND YEAR, WE WILL PROB ABLY HAVE TO MAKE AN AD JUSTMENT SOMEWHERE ELSE TO MAKE UP FOR THAT LOST IN COME.

CHIEF JUSTICE: JUSTICE BELL BELL E HAS A QUESTION.

REAL QUICK , THE NUMBERS OF OUT-OF-STATE STUDENTS , AND LET'S SAY IF YOU WANT TO PRACTICE IN GEORGIA, D O MOST STATES OFFER SIMILAR CLINICAL PERHAPS ? ONE WOULD -- CLINICAL PROGRAMS? ONE WOULD THINK THAT IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO PRACTICE IN FLORIDA , YOU WOULD WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLINICAL PROGRAM IN THE STATE IN WHICH THEY INT END TO PRACTICE.

I WOULD ASS UME THAT THERE ARE CLINICAL PROGRAMS , BECAUSE THAT IS BEING PU SHED B Y THE AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION THAT THERES HOULD BE CLINICAL PROGRAMS AND THAT IS A PUSH NATIONWIDE, SO I WOULD ASSUME THERE ARE CLINICAL PROGRAMS. THE NUMBERS FROM FLORID A AND THESE ARE NUMBERS THAT WEGOT FROM YOUR CLERK'S OFFICE , AND DURING THE LAST 12 MONTHS THERE WERE 8 89 INTERN CERTIFICATIONS FROM THE FLORIDA STATE'S IN-STATE LAW SCHOOLS BUT ONLY 22 OUT-OF-STATE. SO 889 IN-STATE AND 22 OUT-OF-STATE, SO 99 AND-A-HALF PERCENT ARE APPARENTLY IN INTERN PROGRAMS FROM ONE OF FLORIDA'S LAW SCHOOLS.

JUSTICE: WHY CAN'T YOU ADOPT THE FOLLOWING SYSTEM , INSTEAD OF APPLYING TO THE FLORIDA BAR IF YOU WANT TO BE AN INTERN , YOU REGISTER WITH THE BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS FOR A FEE OF $75. IF YOU REG ISTER WITHIN 250 DAYS OF ENT ERING LAW SCHOOL AND YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO , YOU CAN MAKE IT AN APPLICATION TO THE FLORIDA BAR. IF YOU DO IT A FTER THE 250 DAYS IT IS THE REGISTRATION THAT IS $75. IF YOU LATER APPLY TO BE A MEMBER OF THE FLORIDA BAR, THAT $75 CAN BE APPLIED TO THE $500 FEE.

WELL, WE USE THE WORD REGISTRATION, BUT AS MR . R USH INDICATED, THAT IS BASICALLY YOU ARE FILING THEBAR APPLICATION AS A LAW STUDENT. YOU ARE JUST NOT SI GNING YOUR NAME TO IT. YOU ARE FILING THE BAR APPLICATION , AND WE DO PERFORM A BA SIC --

I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR PROPOSAL IS BUT CAN YOURESPOND TO WHY CAN'T YOU DO IT THE WAY I JUST DESCRIBED.

I AM NOT SURE I CONTEMPLATE WHAT WOULD BE INVOLVED IN REGISTERING.

THE SAME BACKGROUND REGISTRATION, THE EXACT SAME PROCEDURE THAT YOU ARE DELINEATING EX CEPT THAT YOU D ON'T HAVE TO PAY $500 FORIT, I F YOU DO IT AFTER THE 250 DAYS AND YOU ARE NOT APPLYING TO THE FLORIDA BAR , UNLESS YOU SPECIFY THAT YOUWANT TO APPLY, THAT THIS REGISTRATION PROCESS WILL A LSO CONSTITUTE YOUR APPLICATION OF THE F LORIDA BAR .

THAT IS SOMEWHAT SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE NOW.YOU CAN REGISTER AS A LAW STUDENT, BUT IN YOUR THIRD YEAR YOU DO HAVE TO CON VERT AND THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL FEE AT THAT POINT I N TIME,WHICH IS WHEN THE BOARD DOES ITS DETAILED BACKGROUND INVESTIGATION IN THE THIRDYEAR, SO YOU CAN REGISTER INTHE FIRST YEAR.

THE MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MY PROPOSAL ANDYOURS IS THAT, IF YOU REGISTER AFT ER THE 250 D AYS, IT IS ST ILL $75.

O KA Y .

JUSTICE: IT JUST DOES NOT CONSTITUTE AN APPLICATION TO THE FLORIDA BAR.

IT WOULD JUST BE FOR THE REGISTRATION, AND THAT WOULD GO UP TO WHEN , BECAUSE, AGAIN , IF YOU REGISTER THELAST DA Y OF YOUR LAW SCHOOL , THAT PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE REAL PRACTICAL.

JUSTICE: THAT IS THE STUDENT 'S PROBLEM.

YOU WOULD WANT TO GO THROUGH THE SECOND YEAR, IGUESS.

CHIEF JUSTICE: JUDGE POBJECKY, ON E OF THE THINGS H AD THAT WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE FEES , BUT I THINK THE COURT WAS CONCERNED AND I KNOW FROM THE TIME THAT I HAD TO SUR VEY THIS IS TO HAVE A UNIF ORM SY STEM , SO IF YOU , CHARACTER AND FITNESS , THEY HAVE MANY OF THESE ANDCAPITOLS THAT HAVE HAD SOME , NOT MANY BUT SOME PERCENTAGE THAT HAVE HAD SOMETHING IN THEIR PAST , BE IT SHOPLIFTING, DU I'S , WHEN YOUGIVE THE CHARACTER AND FITNESS RESULTS , WOULD YOU CONTEMPLATE THAT IT MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT RECOMMENDATION FOR SOMEBO DY THAT IS GOING TO BE IN A SCHOOL INTERN PROGRAM VERSUS SOMEBODY GOING INTO THE BAR? IN OTHER WORDS SOMEBODY THAT, OR IT WOULD BE THE SAME?

IT WOULD BE THE SAME.

CHIEF JUSTICE: THAT WE WOULD HAVE A UNIFORM SYSTEM , IF SOMEBODY HAS GOT PE NDING CRIMINAL CHAR GES , THEN THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD NOT AL LOW THEM INTO THE BAR.WE WOULDN'T BE --

IT WOULD BE THE SAME STANDARDS THAT WOULD BE APPLIED. ONLY ONE OTHER COMMENT, I THINK JUSTICE LE WIS ABOUTTHE PASSING RATES FOR THE L AST FOUR EXAMS , PASSINGRATE FOR SECOND TIME TAKE RS HAS RANGED FROM A LOW OF 20 PERCENT TO A HIGH OF 40 PERCENT. THA NK YOU.

GOOD MO RNING. M AY IT PLEAS E THE COURT. MY NAME IS DON HO RN AND I AM HIM SPEA KING ON BE HALF OF THE FLORIDA PROSECUTING ATTORNEYS ASSO CIATION, AND I AM ALSO SPEAK BEHALF O F THEDADE COUNTY STATE ATTORNEYSOFFICE AND AL SO I AM SPEAKING INDIVIDUALLY , BECAUSE I HAVE AN INTEREST IN THE I MPACT OF THIS RULE. LAST NI GHT I DECIDED I WOULD CHANGE THE WAY I WANTED TO START MY COMMENTS TO YOU, AND ONE OF THE THIN GS I WANT TO START WITH IS TO D IRECT YOUR ATTE NTION TO A CA SEBACK IN 1 994 , W HEREIN YOU ALL, THIS COURT WAS DE ALING WITH SOME HOSTILITIES TO THIS CHAPTER AND SOME OTHERS C ITED , 37 SO.2D 96 8 AND O NEOF THE THINGS I WANTED TO START OFF TAKING A LOOK AT , THERE WERE SE VERAL COMMENTS IN THAT OPINION WHERE THE COURT INDICATED THIS PROPOSED RULE HAS NO LAW SCHOOL CLINICAL EDUCATION REQUIREMENTS . BECAUSE THE LAW SCHOOL CLINICAL TRAINING REQUIREMENT IS IMPORTAN T TOTHE PROTECTION OF A PUBLIC, WE RE JECT THE PROP OSAL ANDIT APPLIES TO PERSONS NOTADMITTED TO THE BAR. IN OTHER RULE S, THEY WERE CONSIDERING THIS PROPOSAL -- CHIEF MR. HORN , IT IS A LITTLE HARD TO HEAR YOU.

ANOTHER CHAPTER THAT WAS AMENDED OR RECOMMENDED FOR AMENDMENT, THIS PROPOSAL HAS NO LAW SCHOOL CLINICAL E DUCATION REQUIREMENT. WE THERE FOR REJECT IT. AND THE REASON WHY I POINT OUT THOSE OU T, IT IS CLEARFROM THIS OPINION THAT THIS COURT RECOGNIZES THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING CLI NICAL PERHA PS IN A LAW SCHOOL. IN FACT , IN THE PURPOSE STATEMENT FOR THE PR ESENT R ULE , 11-1 .1.

JUSTICE: MR . HORN , DO YOUHAVE, I KNOW , I HAVE READ THE OBJECTIONS TO THE PROPOSAL BY THE COMMITTEE.

YE S.

JUSTICE: DO YOU HAVE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS YOURSELF?

I --

JUSTICE: AS TO HO W WE CANSOLVE THIS PROBLEM?

I ACTUALLY DO AND I WAS ACTUALLY ON THE COMMITTEE THAT MR . RU SH CHAIRED. I ATTENDED SOME OF THEMEETINGS THAT MR . WYATTCHAIRED AND I WAS HO PING PEO PLE WANTING TO DO AN INTERNSHIP , WHILE IN LAW SCHOOL , COULD PROVIDE A FEE FOR A BACKGROUND CHECK S O WHEN THE CLERK GETS THE INFORMATION, THEY WILL HAVE THE IN FORMATION IN TERMS O F WHETHER SOMEONE HAS A CRIMINAL HIST ORY.

CHIEF JUSTICE: FILE WHERE?

IF THEY DON 'T FILE IT , THEY CAN PROVIDE A CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK A S PART OF THE PAPERWORK THAT THEY SUBMIT WITH THEIR REQUEST TO BE A CERTIF IED LE GAL INTERN.

CHIEF JUSTICE: HOW MUC H DOES IT COST TO GET A CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK?

LESS THAN $100. YOU CAN DO LESS THAN THAT ON THE --

CHIEF JUSTICE: SO WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE $75?

THE DO LLAR FIGURE IS NOT THE MAIN PROBLEM, JUDGE. WHAT HAPPENS IS I AM IN CHARGE OF HI RING INNEROFFICE, AND I -- HIRING IN OUR OFFICE, AND I KNOW WHEN ALL OF THE OTHER LAW SCHOOLS ARE RUNNING THEIR HIRING T IME FR AME, EVERYBODY IS RECRUITING. IF LOOKING AT THIRD YEAR LAW STUDENTS, WE ARE DO ING THE INTERVIEWS IN THE NEXT TO THE LAST SEMESTER THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GRADUATE , AND THEY ARE SAYING TO US I HAVE GOT A CLERK SHIP THAT IAM GOING TO BE DOING N EXT SEMESTER, THE LAST SEM ESTER FOR SCHOOL. IF THESE STUDENTS HAVE JUST DECIDED THAT I WANT TO GO INTO CRIMINAL LAW IN THE PUBLIC DEFENDERS , STATE ATTORNEYS WORK AND THEY ARE MAKING THAT DECISION AT THEBEGINNING OF THEIR THIRD YEAR LAW SCHOOL THERE, IS NO WAY IF THIS RULE IS ADOPTED , THOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE A BLE T O GET THAT CLEARANCE LETTER, BECAUSE ACCORDING TO THE BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS, IT IS THREE MONTHS TO SIX MONTHS, ASS UMING THERE IS NO PROBLEM.

JUSTICE: IS N'T THE ANSWER TO THAT PROBLEM THAT THE LAW SCHOOL DEANS AND THE DIRECTORS OF THE CLINICAL PROGRAMS WARN STU DENTS WHOMAY BE INTERE STED IN CLINICAL PROGRAMS THAT THEY NEED TO REGISTER BE FORE THEEND OF THEIR SECOND YEAR ?

THE SUGGESTION I S I AM A FIRST YEAR LAW STUDENT , ANDWITHIN THAT FIRST COUPLE OF SEMESTERS , I AM GOING TO DECIDE WHAT IT IS THAT I WANT TO DO FOR MY LEGALCAREER.

CHIEF JUSTICE: EX CEPT THAT MOST OF THEM ARE GOINGTO BE STAYING IN FLORIDA AND TAKING THE FLORIDA BAR EXAM.

NO, THEY DON'T , AND IN F ACT I GOT INFORMATION FROM E LENA H UNTER THAT SHE A MAILED TO ME, WH ICH HAD INFORMATION FOR THE BREAKDOWN OF PEOPLE WHO SIT FOR THE FLORIDA BAR AND EVERY YEAR OVER THE LAST NINE OR TEN YEARS SHE SENT ME, ALMOST HALF OR MORE THAN HALF OF THE PEOPLE SE TING FOR THE FLORIDA BAR ARE OUT-OF-STATE STUDENTS.

CHIEF JUSTICE: THAT MAY BE PEOPLE SETING FOR THE BARBUT HOW MANY PEOPLE IN FLORIDA LAW SCHOOLS ARE NOT TAKING THE FLORIDA BAR?

I GOT A LETTER FROM THE DEANS THIS WEEK AND THEY INDICATE SIGNIFICANT PORTIONS OF THEIR GRADUATES FROM TEN LAW SCHOOLS DON'T TAKE THE BAR EXAM, FROM AHIGH OF APPROXIMATELY 50 PERCENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI TO A LOW OF APPROXIMATELY 7 PERCENT AT FIU , WIT H THE ME DIAN NUMBER BEING 20 PERCEN T.

CHIEF JUSTICE: ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT OUR LAW SCHOOLS , ONLY 20 PERCENT OF THE STUDENTS ENTERING FLORIDA LAW SCHO OLS ARE STAYING IN FLORIDA TO PRACTICE?

THAT WAS THE MED IAN N UMBER THEY GA VE ME , AND WHEN I LOOK ED AT THE NEWSPAPERS I GOT FROM MS. HUNTER, THAT SEEMS TO BE CONSISTENT BECAUSE WE HAVE GOT AN OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF STUDENTS WHO HAVE GONE T O LAW SCHOOLS OUTSIDE OF THIS STATE WHO ARE SETING FOR THEFLORIDA BAR EXAM.

JUSTICE: MR. H ORN , LET ME MAKE SU RE THAT I UNDERSTAND THE POINT YOU ARE MAKING. YOU ARE SUGG ESTING THAT OVER 50 PERCENT OF THE FOLKS TAKING THE FLORIDA BAR ARE OUT-OF-STATE LAW SCHOOLS.

AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI. THAT IS THE INFORMATION I GOT FROM -- WHAT I AM SAYING , JUDGE , WE GOT, I SOLICITED INFORMATION FROM THE DEANSBECAUSE I WANTED TO GE T SOME SENSE OF WHAT THE IMPACT OF THIS WAS GOING TO BE O N THEIR STUDENTS.

CHIEF JUSTICE: WAIT AMINUTE. THE SECOND PART IS OF ALL OF THE LAW SCHOOLS, THE TEN LAWSCHOOLS IN FLORIDA.

YES.

CHIEF JUSTICE: ON LY 20 PERCENT OF ALL THE STUDENTS ATTENDING FLORIDA LAW SCHOOLS ARE ACTUALLY TAKING THE FLORIDA BAR?

THAT WAS THE MEDIAN NUMBER THEY GAVE ME, BUT, AGAIN , THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF PEOPLE SETING FOR THE BAR , ACCORDING TO THE BO ARD OF BAR EXAMINERSNUMBERS, ARE FROM OUT-OF-STATE LAW SCHOOLS.

JUSTICE: ISN'T THE PERTINENT QUESTION HOW MANY PEOPLE THAT PARTICIPATE IN YOUR INTERN PROGRAM DO NOT INTEND ON TAK ING THE FLORIDA BAR?

YES. AND --

JUSTICE: W HAT IS THAT NUMBER?

THAT I DON'T KNOW, BUT WHAT THEY HAVE INDICATED IS THAT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF STUDENTS IN SOME OF THESE LAW SCHOOLS ARE FROM OUT-OF-STATE. IN FACT FLORIDA COASTAL SAYS THEY HAVE GOT 70 PERCENT OF THEIR LAW STUDENTS WHO ARE OUT-OF-STATE.

CHIEF JUSTICE: MR . HORN , WHY WOULDN'T YOU KNOW THE INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR OWNOFFICE, SINCE YOU ARE SAYING --

WE HAVE GOT I HAVE GOT THE -- I HAVE GOT THE INFORMATION FROM MY OFFICE.

CHIEF JUSTICE: MOST OF THE M ARE GOING OUT-OF-STATE? THEY ARE NOT STAYING IN FLORIDA?

LAST YEAR WE HIRED 64 INTERNS. 54 PEOPLE IN AUGUST. 26 OF THEM WERE FROM OUT-OF-STATE LAW SCHOOLS.

CHIEF JUSTICE: THEY WERE JUST THERE FOR THE SUMMER AND THEN GOING --

NO.N O. THEY WENT TO LAW SC HOOLS AND ACCORDING TO JUSTICE BELL 'SSTATEMENT , MOST HAVE CLINICAL PROGRAMS OUTSIDE OFTHE STATE OF FLORIDA. THEY DO THE CLINICAL INTERNSHIPS AND IF WE HIRE, THEY ACCEPT OUR ACCEPTANCE, ACCEPT OUR OFFER TO GET HIRED, THEY, THEN , APPLY FOR THE POST GRADUATE CLI PROGRAM BECAUSE THEY HAVE SATISFIED THE IN -SCHOOL PORTION SO THEY ARE STILLABLE TO WORK AS CLI'S IN OUR OFFICE .

CHIEF JUSTICE: JUSTICE WELLS .

JUSTICE: YES. OUR CONC ERN AROSE OUT OF SEE ING A NUMBER OF PEOPLE FROM , THAT ARE IN LAW SCHOOL, THAT HAVE D RU G CONVICTIONS O R HAVE BEEN ON SOME T YP E OF DRUG DI VERSION PROGRAMS OR SOME TYPE OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. DOES YOUR OFFICE DO ANY SCREEN ING OF THOSE PEOPLE? HOW IT DONE PRESENTLY?

ABSOLUTELY AND I AM THESUPERVISING LAWYER FOR OUROFFICE, AND I RE VIEW EV ERY APPLICATION THAT COMESTHROUGH FOR SOMEBO DY IN LAW SCHOOL WHO WANTS TO DO AN INTERNSHIP IN OUR OFFICE , AND I REJECT A NUMBER OF THEM FOR THOSE SAME REASONS, BECAUSE WE RUN A CRIMINAL HISTORY CHECK ON EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO BE AN INTERN , WE DO A CRIM INAL HISTORYCHECK ON EVERY BODY THAT GETS ACCEPTED IN OUR OFFICE, SO I KNOW WHAT THE BACKGR OUND CHECKS SHOW S

JUSTICE: HAVE YOU GONE THROUGH OUR RECO RDS WHO SEE THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED AND CERTIFIED BY GOVERNMENTAL AGENCIES, TO BE CERTIFIED LEGAL INTERNS , THAT THIS COURT HAS HAD TO GET INVOLVED AND ST OP IT , BECAUSE OF SERIOUS CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS OVER THE , GOING BACK INTO , I G UESS MA YBE THE '80s?

I HAVE NOT , JUDGE , AND WE DID NOT HAVE THAT INFORMATION EVEN WHEN WE WERE ON THE COMMITTEE, BUTTHE POINT I AM MAKING IS I K NOW, ALS O, THAT THE B O ARD OF BAR EXAMINERS CLEARS PEOPLE WITH SOME OF THOSE BACKGROUNDS , BECAUSE WHEN WE ACCEPT THEM I GET THOSEFILES , ALSO , AND SO I KNOW THAT THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE WITH THOSE BACKGROUNDS WHO HAVE BEEN CLEARED BY THIS COU RT. J USTICE ANSTEAD?

JUSTICE: YOU ARE AT ENTING TO CONVEY TO US SOME INFORMATION ORALLY AND IT REALLY IS VERY CONF USING .

YES.

JUSTICE: I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF YOU WOULD RETURN TO THE CORE IS SUE, AND THAT IS THE COU RT'S CONCERN THAT, INDEED THAT WE HAVE SOME K IND OF A Q UALITY PROCESS , OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE G REAT CONF IDENCE IN THEFLORIDA BAR OF BOARD EXAMINERS.THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG TIME , AND THEY HAVE REALLY COME UP WITH A PROPOSITION IN TERMS OF THE FEE STRUCTURE THAT IS VERY L OW. THEY HAVE , ALSO , THAT THE T URN AROUND IS PRE TTY FAST.IT IS A PRETTY PRO MPT PROCESS, SO I FOR ONE DO NOT BELIEVE IT IS REAL ISTIC FOR THIS COURT TO SUBSTITUTE ACRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK FOR THE CONFIDENCE THAT WE WOULD HAVE IN THE FLORIDA B OARD OF BAR EXAMINERS , AND SO HELP US WITH, ISN'T THERE A WAY TO SATISFY YOUR CONCERNS WITHIN THE STRUCTURE THAT IS BEING PROPOSED HERE.IN OTHER WORDS , WITH, LIKE JUSTICE CA NTERO 'S SUGGESTIONS, AND SOME, ISN'T THERE AWAY FOR THIS , REALLY,TO BE DONE AND STILL HAVE IT DONE WITHIN THE BO SOM OF THE COURT TH ROUGH THE FLORIDA BAR BOARD OF EXAMERS?

I THINK THERE MAY BE A WAY TO GET IT DONE, JUSTICE ANSTEAD.I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE WAY BECAUSE OF THECONSEQUENCES OF ADOPTING THEPRECLEARANCE LETTER AND IFYOU FAIL --

JUSTICE: YOUR MAIN OBJECTION IS THE TIMING ISSUE.IS THAT CORREC T?

THAT IS A PART OF IT.

JUSTICE: THAT YOU ARE WORRIED THAT SOMEBODY THAT DECIDES TO DO THIS , NOW , THAT THE TIME THAT IT TAKES FOR THE BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS TO GET THIS THING DONE , WILL A C TUALLY INTERFERE ON THE GROUND WITH THEM BEING ABLE TO PARTICIPATE.

ABSOLUTELY, AND IT IS GOING TO AFFECT THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE IN THIS STATE, BECAUSE THE PUBLIC DEFENDERS OFFICE AND THE STATE ATTORNEYS OFFICE WON'T HAVE PEOPLE WHO, TO HIRE WHO ARE QUALIFIED TO DO THIS JO B WHO HAVE BEEN TRAINED TO DO THIS JOB. THEY WILL EXCLUDED FROM PARTICIPATING , AND IF THEY DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THAT IN-SCHOOL PROGRAM --

CHIEF JUSTICE: M R. HORN , YOU ARE INTO THEIR TIME .

I HAD A QUESTION. IF THERE IS A WAY WOULD YOU SHARE IT WITH US ON AWAY TO USE THE BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS , OTHER THAN WHAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED , SO IT IS WORKABLE. I HAVE NOT HE ARD ONE , I HAVENOT SE EN ONE IN ANY OF THE--

I BELIEVE ONE OF THE OTHER RECOMM ENDATIONS THAT CAME FROM MR . WYATT'S COMMITTEE WAS THE SUGGESTION THAT THE APPLICANT F I LLS AN AFFIDAVIT OUT , A CERTIFICATE UNDER OATH THAT ACTUALLYS IS -- -- THAT ACTUALLY SAYS --

JUSTICE: I THINK THE GROUP'S RECOMMENDATION WAS THAT THE P UBLIC DEFENDERS DO THE CERTIFICATION AND STATEATTORNEYS AND NOT THIS COURT.THAT WAS THE RECOMMENDATION.

I THINK IT WAS SUGGESTED THEY DO A BACKGROUND AND ALSO A RECOMMENDATION WITH A FORM THAT WAS ATTACHED , THAT APPLICANTS SUB MIT A CERTIFICATION AS TO WHAT CRIMINAL HISTORY THEY HAVE, SO THAT THERE WOULD BE AN UP FRONT UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE ISSUES WERE .

JUSTICE: ARE YOU AWARE THAT IS ALREADY , THAT HAS BEEN DONE FOR AT LE AST THE LAST FOUR YEAR S?

I AM AWAR E OF THAT, YOUR HONOR, BECAUSE, A GAIN, I AM THE SUPERVISING ATT ORNEY IN OUR OFFICE. THANK YOU .

CHIEF JUSTICE: YOU HAVE , BETWEEN THE THREE OF YOU YOU , YOU HAVE ABOUT 7 AND-A-HALF MINUTES.

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT. MY NAME IS BLAISE TRETTIS AND I SUBMIT WRITTEN KMONTS ON BEHALF OF THE FLORIDA PUBLIC DEFENDERS ASSOCIATIONIN THE STATE BUT I WOULDLIKE TO EMPHASIZE TO THECOURT THIS M ORNING HOW VITALLY IMPORTANT THE CURRENTLY-WORDED RULE 11 IS FOR PUBLIC DEFENDTORIES BE ABLE TO HIRE PERSONNEL TO STAFF THEIR OFFICES.

CHIEF JUSTICE: I HAVE , AND I HAVE GOT T O JUST SAY THAT ALTHOUGH I AM VERY SYMPATHETIC TO THE PUBLIC DEFEND ERSAN STATE ATTO RNEYS , I AM VERY CONCERNED -- DEFENDERS , AND THE STATEATTORNEYS, I AM VERY CONCERNED THAT THE TENOR OF THESE COMMENTS HAS BEEN THAT THERE IS REALLY AN OVER DEPENDENCE MA YBE BECAUSE OF INADEQUATE FUNDING OF THE LEGISLATURE , FOR THE PUBLIC DEFEND ER SAN STATEATTORNEYS.THE PR IME PURPOSE -- DEFENDERS AND STATEATTORNEYS.THE PRIME PURPOSE THAT RULE 11 WAS AD OPTED WAS TO PROVIDE COMPETENT LE GAL SERVICES INCLUDING THOSEUNABLE TO PAY FOR THOSESERVICES. I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WAS CONTEMPLATED THAT THIS WOULDBE THE SORT OF SECONDARY WAY THAT STATE ATTORNEYS AND PUBLIC DEFENDERS WOULD BE , GET INEXPENSIVE ASSISTANCE. COULD YOU ADDRESS THAT. IS THAT WHAT HAS HAPPENED W ITH THIS PROGRA M?

THAT IS WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH THE PROGRAM, AT LEAST AS FAR AS THE PUBLIC DEFENDERS OFFICE IS CONC ERNS . I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE STATE ATTORNEY, BUT IT HAS BEC OME VITALLY IMPORTANT AND IT REALLY HAS MA DE A DIFFERENCE IN SOME OFFICES , I THINK, FOR THE PUBLIC DEFEND ERS' ABILITY TO DISCHARGE THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL DUTIES , PROVIDE LEGAL REPRESENTATION TO THEIR CLIENTS .

JUSTICE: SO HOW MA NY INTERNS DO YOU HAVE?

FOR EXAM PLE APRIL 15 , WHEN THE BAR EXAMINERS CAME INTO OUR OFFICE , WE HAD 63 ATTORNEY POSI TIONS AND S IX CER TIFIED LEGAL INTERNS WORKING IN OUR OFFICE A T THAT TIME AND THAT WAS NOTOUT OF CHOICE , BECAUSE PERSONALLY OF COURSE I WOULD R ATHER HIRE LAWYERS IF THEY ARE NOT AVAILABLE, BUT THEY ARE NOT AVAI LABLE AND NOT APPLYING TO OUR OFFICE , DESPITE EM ENS EFFORTS T O ATTRACT APPLIC ANTS. THEY ARE NOT HIRING AND WE WOULD LIKE TO HIRE THOSE SIX AND IT TURNS OUT THANKFULLY FIVE OF THE SIX P A SSED THE BAR EXAM, BUT THAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW RELY AND THE PUBLIC DEFEND RE SPECT -- RELIANT PUBLIC DEFENDERS HAVE BECOME ON THE RULE.

CHIEF JUSTICE: THESE AREINDIVIDUALS WHO CONTINUE PRACTICE AFTER COMPLETION THIS. IS WHERE YOUR CONCERN IS , NOT THOSE THAT ARE IN LAW SCHOOL? ANOTHER LAW SCHOOL IS A CONCERN AS WELL , BECAUSE WE THINK IF THIS IS CHANGED WE THINK WE WILL SEE A NUMBER OF APPLICANTS D ROP OFF WHO BECOME INTERNS AND OF COUR SETHE BAR PASSAGE PAR T IS A MAJOR CONTENTION FOR THE PUBLIC DEFENDERS AS WELL.

JUSTICE: WHY DO YOU THINK YOU WILL SEE A SIGNIFICANTDROP?

BECAUSE IN REAL LIFE , YOUR HONOR, I T HINK WHAT HAPSENSE STUDENTS DO NOT DECIDE THAT THEY WANT TO GO INTO A CERT IFIED LEGAL INTERN CLINICAL PROGRAM UNTIL THEIR SECOND YEAR OF LAW SCHOOL , WHEN THEY HAVE DONE A TR IAL PR ACTICE CLASSTYPICALLY. THEY ARE IN THAT CLASS AND FIGURE OUT THIS IS WHAT I WANT TO DO FOR THE REST OF MY CAREER AND BY THAT TIME , I T WOULD BE TOO LATE TO G ETAN IN ITIAL LE TTER O F CLEARANCE FROM THE BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS.

JUSTICE: IT IS THE TIME THAT IS YOUR CONCER N, THEN.

YES , YOUR HONOR. I THINK THE B OARD OF BAR EXAMI NERS TO DO AN INI TIAL LETTER OF CLEA RANCE WITHIN THREE -TO-FIVE WEEKS OR SO, THEN THAT MIGHT SOLVE THE PROBLEM ALL TOGE THER, AND I WOULD CON -- CONCUR WITH SOME OF THE OT HER SPEAKERS THAT A $75 FEE WITH APPLICATION , TO UNDERWRITE THE COST OF INVESTIGATION, SHOULD SU FFICE AND CAUSE THEBOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS TO REALIZE QUICKLY THAT THIS PERSON HAS NOTHING IN THEIR BACKGROUND WHICH WOULD DISQUALIFY THEM , WHICH SEEMS TO ME -- CH IE F THIS SEEMSLIKE IT S HOULD HAVE BEEN A DISCUSSION BETWEEN THE BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS AND THE COMMITTEE ABOUT MODIFICATION. OUR CONCERN HAS BEEN IT BE UNIFORM.WE DON'T HAVE THE AB ILITY OF JUSTICE LE WIS OR JUSTICE PARIENTE OR JUSTICE AN STEAD ARE THERE LOOKING AT THESE APPLICATIONS, TO REALLY BE ABLE TO EVALUATE IT, SO WE NEED A PROFESSIONAL EVALUATE OR. WHETHER THEY NEED THE WHOLE NINE Y ARDS O R JUST EIGHT OF THEM, IS SOME THING OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS, THE CONVERSATION SH OULD HAVE HAD.HAVE YOU HAD ANY OF THIS WITH THE BOARD OF --

I UNDERS TAND WHY THE COURT WOULD NOT WANT TO BE PERSO NALLY RESPONSIBLE FORLOOK INTEREST ING THE CHARACTER AND FITNESS OF CERTIFIED INTERNS BUT I THINK CERTAI NLY THE BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS COULD DO IT A LOT M ORE QUICKLY WITH AN AFFIDAVIT.I WOULD RESPECTFULLY RELINQUISH THE REST OF MY TIME TO NANCY DANIELS.

CHIEF JUSTICE: WE WILL G IVE MR . FINGERHUT TWO MINUTES BUT YOU NEED T O TALK FAST.

THANK YOU. I WILL , JUSTICE. MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT. SIX ELE CTED PUBLIC DEFEND E RSAN ONE EL ECTED STATEATTORNEY AND OUR GE NERAL COUNSEL AND EXECUTIVEDIRECTOR ARE HERE TODAY, TO UNDERSCORE HOW VERY CONCERNED WE ARE