GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. CAN YOU ALL HEAR ME, WITH THIS MICROPHONE ON? WHOEVER IS WORKING ON THE MICROPHONE. WHOEVER IN THE BACK, CAN YOU HEAR ME? RAISE YOUR HAND? I AM FAIRLY SOFT-SPOKEN, SO I NEED TAKE MICROPHONE TO BE HEARD. I WANT TO WELCOME YOU TO THE TOWN HALL MEETING THIS MORNING. I WANT TO TAKE A COUPLE OF MINUTES TO MAKE INTRODUCTIONS AND EXPLAIN THE PROCEDURE WE ARE GOING TO FOLLOW. OUR PANEL COMPOSES THE MEMBERS OF THE JUSTICE TEACHING INSTITUTE, MEMBERS FROM ACROSS THE STATE, WHO ARE HERE WITH US FROM SUNDAY THROUGH THURSDAY. THIS IS PART OF THE PROGRAM. ALSO ON THE PANEL WE HAVE TWO JUSTICES OF THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT, AND YOU CAN PROBABLY TELL, LOOKING AT THE NAME PLATES, THERE, WHICH IS WHICH. THIS IS JUSTICE BARBARA PARIENTE, WHO WAS APPOINTED TO THE COURT IN 1997. THIS IS JUSTICE HARRY ANSTEAD, APPOINTED TO THE COURT IN 1994. BOTH OF THESE JUSTICES WERE APPELLATE JUDGES ON THE FOURTH DISTRICT COURT OF APPEAL, WHICH, IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR LITTLE MAP, ON THERE, THAT IS DOWN THERE ON THE SOUTHERN PART, ON THE EASTERN SEABOARD. IT TAKES UP PALM BEACH AND BROWARD COUNTY, WHERE JUDGE HOLMES IS FROM, AND ST. LUCIE AND OKEECHOBEE AND ST. MARTEEN COUNTY, I BELIEVE, THAT AREA. THEY ARE GOING TO BE PARTICIPATING. WE, ALSO, HAVE A SPECIAL MEMBER OF THE PANEL, PROFESSOR STEVEN GUY, WHO IS THERE IN THE MIDDLE. HE IS OUR EXPERT ON CONSTITUTIONAL LAW AND TEACHES AT THE FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF LAW. AND, ALSO, NOT ON THE PANEL BUT CAME IN THE COURTROOM JUST A MINUTE AGO IS OUR CHIEF JUSTICE, CHARLES WELLS. AND FOR THOSE PEOPLE ON THE PANEL, I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE SOME FOLKS HERE. I KNOW WE HAVE VISITING STUDENTS FROM THREE DIFFERENT HIGH SCHOOLS, AND IF YOU WOULD, STAND UP. THE TEACHER, SUSIE GROVENER FROM LEON HIGH AND THE STUDENTS FROM LEON. WOULD YOU STAND UP, SO WE CAN -- WE JUST WANT TO KNOW WHO IS WHO. THAT IS JUSTICE PEGGY QUINCE THAT JUST STOOD UP IN THE BACK OVER HERE. JUST KIDDING. JUDGE HOLMES INTRODUCES HERSELF AS JUSTICE PEGGY QUINCE, FROM TIME TO TIME. AND FROM GODBY HIGH, JENNIFER WOMAN BELL, YOUR CLASS. -- JENNIFER WOMBLE, YOUR CLASS. AND FROM RICKERS, ERNESTINE HALL AND YOUR CLASS. VERY GOOD. WAIT A SECOND. THERE IS A FELLOW THAT LOOSE TOO OLD TO BE A STUDENT, NOW, WAIT A SECOND. WHO IS THAT WITH YOU, MISS HALL? FROMNISMS MIDDLE SCHOOLING -- FROM NIMS MIDDLE SCHOOL? MR. NIMS. WELCOME. WE ARE GLAD TO HAVE YOU WITH US, TOO. ANYBODY ELSE THAT DOESN'T WANT TO BE INTRODUCED THAT IS SITTING IN THE AUDIENCE, THAT IS OKAY. WE WILL LEAVE YOU ALONE. PROCEDURE. WE ARE GOING TO SHOW A SHORT MULTIVIDEO, MULTIMEDIA, WHAT DO YOU CALL IT, PRESENTATION, HERE. THE QUALITY OF WHICH YOU WILL HAVE TO EXCUSE, BUT IT IS VERY ENTERTAINING, NONETHELESS. THAT IS GOING TO SET UP OUR PROBLEM OR OUR ISSUE FOR DISCUSSION. WE ARE GOING TO FOLLOW THAT BY SOME, IF YOU WILL NOTICE, YOU HAVE GOT THOSE LITTLE THING THAT IS LOOK LIKE REMOTE CONTROLS. THOSE ARE OPTION FINDER, RESPONDER UNITS. WE ARE GOING TO USE THAT TO RECORD YOUR ANSWERS, AND WE ARE GOING TO GET SOME DEMOGRAPHICS FROM YOU IN A LITTLE BIT. WE ARE GOING TO SEE IF THERE IS ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ANSWERS THE STUDSENTS -- THE STUDENTS GIVE AND THE ANSWERS THE TEACHERS GIVE. WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT RESPONSES FROM THE PANEL TO THE ISSUES RAISED IN THE VIDEO THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE. WE ARE, ALSO, GOING TO ALLOW THE STUDENTS, IF YOU WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS DISCUSSION -- HERE, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE SMALL GROUP DISCUSSIONS LATER, BUT IF YOU WANT TO PARTICIPATE, WHERE ARE SUSAN AND ROBERT HANGING AROUND? I DON'T SEE THEM. AND ANNETTE IS BACK THERE. IF YOU DO, JUST RAISE YOUR HAND AND GET THEIR ATTENTION. THEY ARE GOING TO LEAD YOU UP TO THE PODIUM. WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE A LOT OF LAG TIME BETWEEN YOU COMING UP AND DOING IT, BUT IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION OR A COMMENT ABOUT ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT IS RAISED, WE WILL DO IT THAT WAY. AFTER THAT, WE WILL BREAK OUT INTO SMALL GROUPS. YOU WILL HAVE GROUPS. WE WILL HAVE GROUP FACILITATORS. IN ADDITION TO A FACILITATOR, IT MIGHT BE THE SAME PERSON, A LAW GIVER, IMAGES OF MOSES WITH A TABLET. IF SOMEBODY HAS A QUESTION, ASK THAT. AND A SCHOOL POLICY ON DRESS CODE, THAT IS GOING TO BE YOUR GOAL FOR YOUR SMALL GROUP DISCUSSIONS. WE ARE GOING TO COME BACK AND EACH GROUP WILL RECORD, SO YOU WILL NEED TO HAVE A RECORD AND A RECORDER FOR EACH GROUP, TO TELL US WHAT YOU CAME UP WITH, SO WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, CAN WE HAVE OUR VIDEO. [VIDEO NOT CAPTIONED .n]

UNFORTUNATELY, THIS PRODUCTION WAS NOT COMPLETED IN TIME TO COMPETE IN THE OSCARS THIS YEAR. [WLAFTER]

OTHERWISE IT SURELY WOULD HAVE WON. YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED SOME OF THE ACTORS IN THIS OR SOME OF THE STAFF. SUSAN HALORAN PLAYED THE MOTHER. YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE FOLKS AROUND HERE. THEY ARE AVAILABLE FOR AUTOGRAPHS LATER. DON'T HESITATE TO ASK. THEY ARE GLAD TO GIVE THEM. SO PROFESSOR GUY, WHAT IS THE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION THAT IS IMPLICATED BY THIS LITTLE SCENE WE JUST SAW?

YOU HAVE GOT MOST OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS IMPLICATED, WHICH -- MRS. HALORAN USED TO BE A STUDENT OF MINE. WE TRIED TO CRAM THE ENTIRE BILL OF RIGHTS INTO A THREE THREE-CHAPTER SCENARIO AND THEN HAVE THE BASIC SITUATION. YOU HAVE GOT THREE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS ISSUES. ACTUALLY FOUR. YOU HAVE GOT FIRST AMENDMENT FREE SPEECH RIGHTS AT ISSUE. YOU HAVE GOT FIRST AMENDMENT FREE EXERCISE RELIGION RIGHTS AT ISSUE. YOU HAVE GOT DUE PROCESS ISSUES AT ISSUE, AND YOU HAVE GOT EQUAL PROTECTION ISSUES AT ISSUE. LET'S GO OVER THEM ONE BY ONE. FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE GOT FREE SPEECH. ON ONE HAND, THEY SAID BACK DURING THE VIETNAM WAR ERA, THAT STUDENTS DO HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEAK, AT LEAST POLITICALLY, ABOUT CERTAIN MATERIAL ISSUES OF THE DAY, AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T INTERRUPT THE DAY. THAT IS THE CASE WITH THE VIETNAM WAR BAND ISSUE.

ACTUALLY, PROFESSOR, WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THE LAW IS. THOSE ARE THE AMENDMENTS THAT ARE THERE. WHAT WE WANT TO DO BY THIS, AND ACTUALLY I DON'T WANT ANY OF THE PANEL OR THE STUDENTS THAT COME UP HERE TO BE RESTRAINED, TOO MUCH, BY WHAT THE CASE LAW, THE INTERPRETATION OF THOSE AMENDMENTS ARE BUT WHAT YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE.

WHAT YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE.

OR WHAT THE PANEL THINKS THEY SHOULD BE. WE HAVE GOT THE FIRST AMENDMENT. ESSENTIALLY, THAT IS --

FIRST AMENDMENT, FREE SPEECH.

WHICH SAYS CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW BRIDGING THE --

FREEDOM OF SPEECH. YOU HAVE GOT THE FREE EXERCISE OF RELIGION. CONGRESS MADE A LAW ESTABLISHING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF OF RELIGION, WHATEVER THAT MEANS. THE COURT, REALLY, DOESN'T KNOW, ITSELF, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH. DUE PROCESS, WHICH MEANS BEFORE TAKING AWAY LIFE, LIBERTY OR PROPERTY, THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO GIVE YOU DUE PROCESS, AGAIN, WHATEVER THAT MEANS, AND, AGAIN, THE COURTS AREN'T CLEAR ABOUT THAT, EITHER, AND, AGAIN, EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAW, WHATEVER THAT MEANS.

WE HAVE GOT A CLEAN SLATE TO WORK WITH THEN. SOME HELP ON THE DEMOGRAPHICS THOUGH. YOU SAID WE ARE GOING -- I DON'T SEE ANY QUESTIONS, SUSAN OR ROBERT, ON THE DEMOGRAPHICS, SO I JUST ASK THEM TO USE THIS RESPONDER? WE WANT TO GET YOU DIVIDED, SO WE KNOW -- YOU HAVE THE QUESTIONS. THE FIRST QUESTION IS. NOW, THESE THINGS, THEY ARE LIKE A REMOTE CONTROL, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO POINT IT AT THE SCREEN OR ANYTHING, TO RECORD YOUR DECISION, BUT WHENEVER WE SAY GO AHEAD, YOU ARE A STUDENT OR YOU ARE SOMEBODY ELSE. IF YOU ARE A SOMEBODY ELSE, YOU ARE A JCI PARTICIPANT. SO CLICK WHICHEVER ONE APPLIES TO YOU. THAT IS THE QUESTION. I SEE. THAT IS THE ONLY QUESTION, TO DIVIDE THEM UP. HOW WILL THEY KNOW, FROM NOW ON, THOUGH, WHICH ONE IS WHICH? OKAY. ACTUALLY THOSE MACHINES WILL RECORD YOUR FINGERPRINT. WHEN YOU PRESS DOWN ON YOUR THUMB -- NO. JUST KIDDING. IT WILL IDENTIFY YOU.

THEN YOU HAVE GOT FOURTH AMENDMENT ISSUES.

DON'T GO THERE.

PRIVACY QUESTION ON THAT. ALL RIGHT. SO WE HAVE GOT 60 PERCENT STUDENTS AND 40 PERCENT EVERYBODY ELSE. OKAY. LET'S TAKE THE FIRST QUESTION ON HERE. YOU, ALSO, HAVE A COPY OF THAT. THE FIRST QUESTION IS HOW SHOULD THE FIRST AMENDMENT GUARANTEE OF FREE SPEECH APPLY TO STUDENTS IN A SCHOOL SETTING? YOU ALL AREES TEACHERS OR STUDENTS. WE HAVE A QUESTION ALREADY. YES, SIR. WHAT DID YOU DO TO IT? WE WILL GET YOU ONE. OKAY. YOU ALL ARE VERY EDUCATED IN THIS ROOM, SO YOU CAN READ IT. I AM NOT GOING TO READ EVERY SUGGESTED ANSWER, THERE, BUT LOOK THROUGH THERE AND SEE WHAT YOU THINK IS THE BEST ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION AND THEN RECORD IT. WE WILL GIVE YOU ABOUT 20 SECONDS, MAYBE, AND THEN WE WILL SEE. YOU THINK ABOUT IT, AND WE WILL PUT IT UP ON THE BOARD. IS EVERYBODY ABOUT DONE? THIS GIVES YOU A LITTLE PRACTICE AT BEING A JUDGE. HERE IS THE ISSUE. MAKE A DECISION. QUICK! AND THEN WE SEND IT UP TO THE APPELLATE COURT. TAKE YOUR TIME. AS MUCH AS YOU NEED. WHAT IS THE MOTTO ACROSS THE THING? SOON ENOUGH IS CORRECT. OKAY. EVERYBODY GOT YOUR ANSWER RECORDED? LET'S SEE WHAT THEY ARE. LOOKS LIKE THE FIRST TWO ARE THE HIGHEST. WHICH 30 PERCENT OF YOU SAID IT SHOULD BE THE SAME AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC. 36 SAID LESS. SIX PERCENT HIGHER. OKAY. THEN 4, 15, AND 13. PRETTY EVENLY SPLIT. THE FIRST AMENDMENT SHOULD APPLY IN SCHOOLS. SCHOOL OFFICIALS OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO REGULATE IT AS TO, NO, THEY SHOULDN'T PROHIBIT ANY RULES, THE AMENDMENT OF FREE EXPRESSION. HOW DO WE DIVIDE THIS UP ON STUDENTS AND OTHERS? ARE THESE THE STUDENTS? THESE ARE TEACHERS. OKAY. GOOD. THE STUDENTS HAD A LITTLE LESS THERE. YOU SEE THE TEACHERS, EVERYBODY ELSE, 57 PERCENT THOUGHT IT OUGHT TO BE LESS THAN THE GENERAL PUBLIC. I AM NOT SURPRISED BY THAT, ARE YOU? THAT THE ADULTS HERE, THE NONSTUDENTS WOULD THINK A LITTLE MORE REGULATION ON YOUR RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH IN SCHOOL IS APPROPRIATE. AND IT LOOKS LIKE PRETTY EVENLY SPLIT ON THE OTHER THINGS THERE. YOU THOUGHT THIS WAS ANONYMOUS, DIDN'T YOU? IT IS ANONYMOUS, BUT I WANT TO GET A VOLUNTEER, SOMEBODY UP HERE. VOLUNTEER, WHO GAVE THE ANSWER THAT IT OUGHT TO BE LESS THAN THE GENERAL PUBLIC. AND TELL ME WHY.

I ACTUALLY GAVE THE ANSWER THAT NOT ONLY SHOULD IT BE LESS BUT IT SHOULD NOT APPLY IN SCHOOLS. SCHOOL SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REGULATE THE CONDUCT IN SCHOOLS, AND I THINK YOU NEED THAT POWER IN SCHOOLS, AND, AGAIN, I KNOW THAT I HIM GIVING LAW RIGHT NOW, BUT WHAT IS THE SAYING, THAT THE CONSTITUTION STOPS AT THE SCHOOLHOUSE DOOR, AND --

THEY ARE HIDING UP THERE IN THE ROOST? OKAY.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO MAKE A BLANKET STATEMENT LIKE THAT, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT SCHOOLS ARE PUT IN A DIFFICULT POSITION, WHERE THEY DO HAVE TO TRY TO REGULATE CONDUCT AND IN A SCHOOL LIKE MY OWN, OF 3600 STUDENTS, IT IS DIFFICULT TO KEEP 3600 STUDENTS GOING AND BEING PRODUCTIVE AND AVOIDING DISTRACTIONS, AND I DO THINK THAT SCHOOLS NEED A LITTLE MORE CONTROL THAN WOULD BE PROVIDED BY THE CONSTITUTION FORM.

-- BY THE CONSTITUTION.

WOULD YOU PUT A BRIGHT-LINE TEST, THOUGH, BASICALLY, ONCE YOU ENTER SCHOOL, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS. IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE SCHOOL SAYS YOU CAN'T SAY IT OR WEAR IT, WHATEVER, THAT WOULD BE IT.

I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE AN OUTLINE. IT IS DIFFICULT JUST TO SAY IT IN A BLANKET STATEMENT LIKE THAT. BUT I DO THINK THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO REPRESENT AT SCHOOL, AND THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY AT SCHOOL.

SO THERE WERE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF YOU UP HERE THAT SAID WE THINK IT ON THE TO BE THE SAME AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC. I NEED A VOLUNTEER FOR THAT.

PROBABLY THE MINORITY, I THINK, WITH SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES, BUT I THINK THE PROBLEM EXTENDS FROM A DISCIPLINE ASPECT, WHEREAS IF A SCHOOL HAS A STRONG DISCIPLINE POLICY, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TREAT THE KIDS EQUAL. I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THEM WEARING CERTAIN THINGS. I MEAN, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO TRAIN THEM AND TEACH THEM HOW THEY WOULD BE IN SOCIETY, YET WHEN THEY COME IN HERE, I THINK WE PUT TOO MUCH RESTRICTIONS ON THEM. THAT CAUSES DIVERSITY RIGHT OFF THE BAT. IT CAUSES A PROBLEM WHEN THEY COME INTO SCHOOL. THEY KNOW THAT WE ARE THE TEACHER AND THEY ARE THE STUDENT AND THEY KNOW THAT THERE IS A DIVISION, AND IF WE WOULD BREAK THAT DIVIDE AND THEM THEM EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, QLONK WE WOULD HAVE THE PROBLEMS THAT -- I DON'T THINK WE WOULD HAVE THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE.

IS THERE A GOOD REASON FOR THAT PUBLIC POLICY. FREEDOM OF SPEECH FOR THE STUDENTS. WHAT ARE THE GOOD PUBLIC POLICY REASONS TO DO THAT? WHY WOULD WE WANT TO DO THAT?

I THINK OUR SCHOOLS ARE THERE TO EDUCATE, AND WE CAN EDUCATE ON DIFFERENT VIEWS, BUT OUR SCHOOLS ARE NOT A POLITICAL FORUM, AND NO ONE SHOULD FEEL PRESSURED TO HAVE TO SIT IN A ROOM, IF YOU ARE A DEMOCRAT, TO SIT IN A ROOM WITH A BUNCH OF REPUBLICANS AND HAVE THAT PRESSURE. TO PRESENT ISSUES FROM DIFFERENT SIDES, NO MATTER WHAT THE ISSUE IS, AND GIVE KIDS THE CHOICE OF WHAT THEY WANT TO REPRESENT OR WHAT THEY WANT TO BELIEVE, BUT INSIDE THE CLASSROOM AND INSIDE THE SCHOOL, THERE SHOULD BE A NEUTRALITY, AND ONCE THEY LEAVE THE CAMPUS, GIVE THEM THE RIGHT TO VOICE THEIR OPINION IN A WAY, RESPONSIBLY, THAT WE HAVE TAUGHT THEM TO SAY WHAT THEY SAID.

I THINK PUBLIC POLICY, TO FOLLOW A GUIDELINE, THE WAY THEY DRESS IN TAMPA WOULD BE, LIKE, THE LONG COATS THEY WEAR. THEY CAN SECRET EVIDENCE IN THERE AND THEY CAN HAVE WEAPONS. MAKE EXCEPTIONS TO CERTAIN COATS.

I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WOULD, PROBABLY, BE IN FAVOR OF RELATIVELY EQUAL, BUT THERE WOULD BE EXCEPTIONS FOR LIKE THAT. JUSTICE ANSTEAD. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

WELL, WHAT YOU SEE GOING ON, JUST WITH THE RESPONSES THAT YOU HAD SO FAR, IS SOMETHING, ALSO, THAT GOES ON WITH THE COURTS, WHEN THEY CONSIDER THESE RIGHTS, AND THEN SPECIFIC FACTUAL SITUATIONS. THAT IS MOST DECISIONS IN THESE AREAS ARE BASED ON A BALANCING OF A VARIETY OF CONSIDERATIONS. AND DEPENDING ON THE PARTICULAR FACTS, THE IMPORTANCE OF THE RIGHTS, THE BALANCE IS GOING TO BE TIPPED IN ONE DIRECTION OR ANOTHER. BUT EACH OF YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED FACTORS THAT THE COURTS CAN CONSIDER, IN DOING THIS BALANCING ACT, WHEN CONSIDERING THE RIGHTS. THE RATES, WHEN YOU JUST SEE THEM WRITTEN IN THE CONSTITUTION, ARE SORT OF AN AND EXTRACTION, AND THEY, REALLY, DON'T HAVE MEANING, UNTIL THEY ARE PRESENTED AND ARE IDENTIFIED IN A PARTICULAR FACTUAL SITUATION, BUT THIS IS LARGELY WHAT THE COURTS DO, IS THEY, FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE IDENTIFYING THE PARTICULAR RIGHT IN QUESTION, AND THEN WE ARE IDENTIFYING RELEVANT CONSIDERATIONS, SO THE MISSION OF THE SCHOOL TO EDUCATE, THEN, THE IMPORTANCE OF THE RIGHT OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT, FOR INSTANCE, IS NOT THE FIRST AMENDMENT FOR NO GOOD REASON. IN OTHER WORDS, THE FIRST AMENDMENT IS CONSIDERED FUNDAMENTAL TO A FREE SOCIETY AND TO OUR SOCIETY, ESPECIALLY, SO THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT GO ON, BELIEVE ME, AND ALL OF US IN THIS ROOM KNOW IT, THAT WE DON'T HAVE ALL THIS INFORMATION IN OUR HEADS. IT IS JUDGES, AND THEN WHEN A CASE COMES UP, WE JUST SAY BOOM! HERE IS THE ANSWER.

OH, REALLY?

EXCEPT WHEN WE REVIEW JUDGE LEWIS'S DECISIONS. [LAUGHTER]

THAT WAS VERY EASY, RIGHT? PUT THEM BACK. WELL, ISN'T THERE SOME PRECEDENT. I MEAN, IN TERMS OF THE RIGHTS THAT ADULTS HAVE IN OUR SOCIETY, NOW, MINORS DON'T ENJOY ALL OF OF THE SAME RIGHTS, DO THEY? I DON'T SEE ANY STUDENTS COMING UP TO THE PODIUM. THEY ARE SHY IN THE AUDIENCE. JACKIE.

I BELIEVE IT WAS LAST YEAR WE WERE CITING THE BILL OF RIGHTS. I TEACH IN A MIDDLE SCHOOL, AND WE HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM, AND WE STUDIED THE CASE. I THINK IT WAS WHERE THEY WERE WEARING BANDANNAS DURING THE VIETNAM WAR, ABOUT THE PEACE, AND MY CLASS WAS TOTALLY DIVIDED. HALF OF THEM WAS IT IS THEIR RIGHT TO WEAR THE BAND AND AS, TO SHOW THAT THEY WERE AGAINST THE WAR, AND HALF OF THEM, NO, BECAUSE THEY WERE DISTURBING THE PEACE OF THE SCHOOL, BUT AT THE END, I BELIEVE THE SUPREME COURT DID RULE THAT THEY DID HAVE THE RIGHT TO WEAR THE BAND AND AS, BECAUSE IT WAS THE FIRST -- BANDANNAS, BECAUSE IT WAS THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT, AND MY KIDS, TOWARDS THE END, MANY OF THEM SWITCHED THEIR MINDS AND SAID, YEAH, THAT THEY ARE FREE TO WEAR WHATEVER THEY WANT, EVEN THOUGH I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE THAT SOME OF THEM STILL BELIEVE STRONGLY THAT SCHOOL IS NOT A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN SHOW THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

WE ARE GETTING THERE ANYWAY.

THERE YOU GO.

SOMETIMES IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT PRETTY KL -- POLITICAL ISSUES. IT IS ABOUT FASHION AND PUBLIC SAFETY. I AM SURE THE FEMALES IN THE AUDIENCE, WE HAVE A POLICY WHERE FEMALES CANNOT WEAR BACKLESS SHOES. WHY WOULD YOU HAVE A POLICY OF NO BACKLESS SHOES? THE HALLS ARE PACKED, AND IF YOU EVER WON BACKLESS SHOES IN A CROWDED SITUATION, PEOPLE GET STEPPED ON AND PEOPLE FALL DOWNSTAIRS, AND IT IS A SERIOUS SAFETY AND HEALTH RISK, SO WE HAVE A POLICY AGAINST BACKLESS SHOES. NOW, THE STUDENTS WILL SAY, WELL, MY FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS TO DRESS MYSELF, AND I AM EXPRESSING MYSELF WITH THESE BACKLESS SHOES, AND THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT LOOK GOOD WITH THIS OUTFIT, AND WE HAVE TO PUT A STOP TO THAT, AND WE SENT STUDENTS HOME. WE HAVE HELD THEM IN THE OFFICE. HAD PARENTS BRING SHOES WITH BACKS ON THEM, AND WE HAVE A STRICT POLICY, BUT, AGAIN, JUST AS THE STUDENTS DON'T WANT TO GO ALONG WITH IT, WE HAVE DIFFICULTY ENFORCING IT, BECAUSE SOME TEACHERS THINK IT IS SILLY, AND SO THEY DON'T ENFORCE, IT AND SO AS A FACULTY, WE ARE ALMOST SPLIT ON IT, SO IT IS NOT ALWAYS JUST ABOUT PRESENTING YOUR POLITICAL VIEW, BUT SOMETIMES IT BECOMES, ON ONE SIDE, FROM A STUDENTS' SIDE, IT IS ABOUT FASHION AND COMFORT, AND FROM THE ADMINISTRATION AND TEACHERS' SIDE, IT IS ABOUT HEALTH AND SAFETY.

THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT FIRST AMENDMENT EXPRESSION. AND A QUESTION ABOUT HEALTH AND SAFETY.

I HAVE ALWAYS PUT INTO MIND IF THE FIRST AMENDMENT WAS INTENDED TO PROTECT UNPOPULAR SPEECH NOT POPULAR SPEECH. I DON'T KNOW IF THE DRESS CODES ARE INVOLVED RIGHT NOW, BUT IF THEY ARE SPEAKING, AS TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, THE GENERAL PUBLIC HAS LIMITATIONS, GIVEN THE CONCEPT. YOU CAN'T CALL "FIRE" FALSELY IN A CROWDED THEATER AND NOT EXPECT TO BE PUNISHED FOR IT, AND YOU CAN'T SAY "YOUR MONEY OR YOUR LIFE", AND THAT IS FREE SPEECH, AND THE STUDENTS SHOULD HAVE THE SAME RIGHT, POPULAR OR UNPOPULAR, AND WITHIN THE GUIDED CONTEXT.

YOU WOULD GO LEANING MORE TOWARDS THE SAME RIGHTS AS EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE PUBLIC.

WITH THE SAME LIMITATIONS, GIVEN CONCEPT.

OKAY. ONE STUDENT AND THEN WE WILL GO TO THE NEXT QUESTION. YES, SIR.

I CHOSE THE ONE THAT TALKED ABOUT IT SHOULD BE A LITTLE LESS IN SCHOOLS, BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS ALL UP TO THE FACULTY. LIKE MS. GODBY, WE HAVE WHAT IS CALLED THE STUDENT ADVISORY COUNCIL, AND THEY HAVE A SAY SO, ALSO, IN WHAT THEY DO, BUT WHEN IT GETS EXTREME, LIKE, WE CAN'T WEAR HATS, AND SOMETIMES WHEN IT IS COLD, IT IS NOT ABOUT GANG SYMBOLS OR FASHION. IT IS COLD OUTSIDE, AND YOU NEED HEAD COVERING, AND WE AREN'T EVEN ALLOWED TO WEAR IT THEN, SO WHEN IT IMPOSE TO THE EXTREME THAT YOU CAN'T WEAR A MATT TO PROTECT FROM THE -- A HAT TO PROTECT FROM THE COLD, YOU SHOULD TALK ABOUT IT THEN. THOSE KINDS OF SYMBOLS SHOULD BE DONE AWAY WITH, LIKE THE STUDENTS AND THE BAND AND AS, BUT WHEN IT -- THE BANDANNAS, BUT WHEN IT IS SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU SHOULD HAVE A TALK ABOUT IT.

LET'S GO TO THE NEXT QUESTION, WHICH IS B. STUDENTS SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO ENFORCE CODE. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO PROHIBIT OR NOT, THESE ARE, YOU KNOW, IT IS LIKE SOME OF THOSE TESTS. YOU SAY I, REALLY, NONE OF THESE ARE EXACTLY LIKE WHAT I WANT. JUST PICK WHICH ONE IS, YOU THINK, THE BEST ANSWER. YOU HAVE HEARD THAT A LOT, VNS VNT YOU! -- HAVEN'T YOU! OKAY. EVERYBODY DONE? IF YOU ARE NOT DONE, RAISE YOUR HAND. WE WILL GIVE YOU A COUPLE MORE SECONDS. THE PRESSURE IS ON. EVERYBODY IS WATCHING! OKAY. 5-4-3-2-1. RECORD YOUR VOTES. LET'S SEE WHAT WE HAVE GOT. IS THAT 55 OR 65? SUBSTANTIALLY APPEAR WITHIN APPROPRIATE ARE REQUIREMENTS OF DISCIPLINE. SOMEBODY VOLUNTEER THAT ANSWERED IN THAT 65%ENT. LELA, WHAT IS APPROPRIATE DISCIPLINE. REQUIREMENTS OF APPROPRIATE DISCIPLINE. I AM HAVING TROUBLE, FIGURING OUT WHAT THAT MEANS. OF COURSE YOU DON'T KNOW, EITHER, DO YOU? BUT YOU ANSWERED IT, SO YOU ARE STUCK WITH IT. TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK. WHY DID YOU ANSWER NUMBER 5 ON THAT ONE?

BECAUSE I -- CAN YOU HEAR ME?

I CAN.

CAN YOU HEAR ME, IN THE BACK? I CHOSE THAT, BECAUSE I THINK, IF WE ONLY PROHIBIT EXPRESSIONS OF PERSONAL APPEARANCE OR OPINIONS THAT INTERFERE WITH APPROPRIATE DISCIPLINE, APPROPRIATE IN OUR TIME, IS NOT BEING PHYSICALLY PUNISHED BUT, PROBABLY, A ONE-ON-ONE CON PFERENCE WITH THAT -- CONFERENCE WITH THAT PERSON, AND I WOULD CALL THAT APPROPRIATE. I HAVE FOUND, AS A TEACHER, THAT DRESS PLACE AN IMPORTANT FACTOR IN BEHAVIOR. TAKE, FOR INSTANCE, THE PROMISE. WE HAVE A LITTLE ANTISOCIAL BEHAVIOR AT PROMISE, BECAUSE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE HOME, EVERYBODY IS DRESSED UP. EVERYBODY LOOSE AWESOME. NOBODY WANTS THEIR HAIR PULLED OR THEIR NAILS BROKEN AT A PROMISE.

I KNOW I SURELY DON'T.

TEND TO TRY AND ACCOMMODATE THAT KIND OF APPEARANCE, AND WHEN WE FIND STUDENTS WHO COME TO SCHOOL, WHO ARE TO THE LEFT OF THE DRESS CODE OR WHO WANT TO PUT THEIR OPINION ON THE LUNCH TABLE, TO BE SERVED TO EVERYONE, I DON'T THINK THAT SHOULD BE ALLOWED. I THINK WE SHOULD HOLD THE REINS ON THAT.

OKAY. SO SUBSTANTIALLY INTERFERE, GIVES YOU A LITTLE GUIDANCE. WE ARE KIND OF BACK TO WHAT STU WAS SAYING. AREN'T WE, STU? IF IT SUBSTANTIALLY INTERFERES WITH WHAT YOU WOULD THINK ARE APPROPRIATE DISCIPLINE RULES.

I THINK THE YOUNG MAN WHO WAS UP A MINUTE AGO BROUGHT UP A VERY GOOD POINT. I AM NOT SAYING THAT THESE DECISIONS HAVE TO BE MADE SOLELY BY ADMINISTRATION OR SOLELY BY FACULTY, BUT I DO THINK THE STUDENTS SHOULD PLAY A ROLE IN DECIDING THIS POLICY, AND MAYBE IF THEY HAVE A STAKE IN THE POLICY, THEN MAYBE THEY WOULD BE MORE WILLING AND MORE EAGER TO FOLLOW THAT POLICY.

YES, MA'AM. I PICKED THE SECOND ONE, BECAUSE AT A LOT OF PLACES, YOU DON'T REALLY FIND OUT THAT SOMETHING CAN BE OFFENSIVE OR PROBLEM-MAKING, UNTIL IT IS KIND OF TOO LATE, UNTIL STUDENTS GET INTO A FIGHT ABOUT IT, AND I THINK THE PROBLEM WITH US HAVING A LOT OF THE FREEDOM AT SCHOOL IS THAT, IF YOU ARE JUST IN A RESTAURANT AND YOU SEE SOMEONE WEARING SOMETHING THAT IS OFFENSIVE TO YOU, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET UP AND LEAVE, BUT AT SCHOOL, IF SOMEONE IS DOING OFFENSIVE, YOU DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO JUST WALKOUT OF THE CLASS ROOM, WITHOUT BEING PENALIZED, SO I THINK WE NEED TO REGULATE WHAT PEOPLE CAN WEAR AND WHAT PEOPLE CAN DO, UNLESS THEY ARE JUST GOING TO GIVE US THE RIGHT TO LEAVE, WHEN EVER SOMETHING BOTHERS ARE YOU, BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF TYPES YOU ARE AT SCHOOL AND YOU HAVE TO WORK IN A GROUP WITH SOMEONE WHO COULD BE, UNDER SOME DRESS CODES, WEARING SOME KIND OF OFFENSIVE THING, LIKE THE DIXIE CHICK THING. I MEAN, I CAN'T SEE MYSELF --

THE DIXIE BABES.

I CAN'T SEE MYSELF WORKING IN A GROUP WITH THAT GIRL, WITHOUT -- BECAUSE I KIND OF HAVE A BIG MOUTH ABOUT SAYING WHAT ARE YOU DOING? THAT IS OFFENSIVE TO PEOPLE, AND I JUST SEE THAT CAUSING A LOT OF PROBLEMS, IF WE DON'T HAVE ANY KIND OF REGULATION AT ALL.

OKAY. WELL, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DETERMINE OR WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHAT IS OFFENSIVE. IF IT IS OFFENSIVE TO ONE PERSON IN THE SCHOOL, THAT ENOUGH?

I THINK THAT WHAT JEFFREY FROM GOD BIWAS TALKING ABOUT, IF WE HAVE -- FROM GODBY WAS TALKING ABOUT, IF WE HAVE THE STUDENTS AND TEACHERS AND ADMINISTRATORS TALK ABOUT AND GET TOGETHER AND SAY THESE ARE THE THINGS WHICH ARE OFFENSIVE TO STUDENTS THESE DAYS. IT IS OUT OF THE VIETNAM ERA, BUT, STILL, IF YOU WEAR A REBEL FLAG TO SCHOOL, I WILL SAY SOMETHING TO YOU, BECAUSE I FIND IT OFFENS I HAVE, AND I JUST DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD BE PUT IN THAT KIND OF SITUATION. IT JUST MAKES LEARNING NOT AS EASY.

YOU WOULD HAVE A HEAVY INFLUENCE BY STUDENT GROUPS, TO DECIDE WHAT WAS OFFENSIVE, AND GO AHEAD, ON NUMBER TWO, YOU WOULD PROHIBIT ANYTHING, INSIGNIAS, SLOGANS, OR ANYTHING THAT WAS OFFENSIVE, UNDER THAT LISTING OR CODE. OKAY. ANY COMMENT? JOHN?

IN MY SCHOOL DISTRICT, I HAVE MY PARTICULAR SCHOOL, CLOTHING IS A PROBLEM NEARLY ON A DAILY BASIS. I AM A DEFINITE -- I SELECTED NUMBER TWO AS WELL, AND I AM A DEFINITE PROPONENT OF SCHOOL UNIFORMS, WHICH WE ARE SEEING TAKING EFFECT ACROSS THE COUNTRY. I THINK THAT JUST ALLEVIATES ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING HERE, TODAY. THE GENTLEMAN FROM GODBY, WHO MENTIONED ABOUT HATS, THERE USED TO BE A TIME WHERE A GENTLEMAN REMOVED THEIR HAT BEFORE THEY ENTERED ANY BUILDING. I THINK THAT IS A PART OF RESPECT. LAST WEEK I WAS IN WASHINGTON. I WAS ALARMED AT HOW HAPPY YOUNG PEOPLE DIDN'T REMOVE THEIR HATS AT ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY, AT JOHN F. KENNEDY'S GRAVE, SO THAT IS AN ELEMENT OF RESPECT, BUT I THINK WE DO, IN FLORIDA, ACCEPT, MAYBE, UNIFORMS, THAT WE MIGHT ALLEVIATE MANY OF THE PROBLEMS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THE SCHOOLS ACROSS THE STATE.

I HEARD A COLLECTIVE GROWN, BUT I WILL GET -- LET ME GET TO FRANK, FIRST, AND THEN TO THE TEACHERS.

ALMOST EVERYTHING STATED BY THE YOUNG LADY, EXCEPT FOR THE WORD "MAY", I CHOSE NUMBER FOUR. I THINK YOU RUN THE RISK, IF YOU SAY WHICH MAY OFFEND SOMEONE, OF NOT BEING ABLE TO SPEAK AT ALL OR NOT BEING ABLE TO SAY ANY TYPE OF, NOT POLITICAL BUT SIMPLY PERSONAL EXPRESSION. ON THE OTHER HAND, WHAT JUDGE ANSTEAD SAID BEFORE, THESE THINGS ARE ALL SITUATIONAL, SO I AM AFRAID IN SOME AREAS THE DIXIE FLAG WOULD HAVE MUCH MORE IMPORTANCE, THAN, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE I TEACH. IT IS BASICALLY A NONISSUE. IT DOESN'T EVEN COME UP. OTHER THINGS WOULD, THOUGH. SO I WENT WITH NUMBER FOUR, JUST BECAUSE IT IS SUBSTANTIAL. I KNOW THAT OPENS A CAN OF WORMS, BUT THAT IS WHAT THE COURTS ARE FOR.

YOU AND LELA GET TOGETHER AND DECIDE WHAT THAT MEANS. BUT THAT IS SOME KIND OF GUIDANCE FOR YOU, TO DECIDE WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO.

I HAVE ONE COMMENT. I CHOSE NUMBER TWO, AS WELL, BUT AS THE YOUNG LADY WAS SPEAKING, SOMETHING I STARTED SPEAKING ABOUT, AS WELL, IS IN MY CLASSROOM IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO BE TOLERANT, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE TEACHERS, TO TEACH, AND AS TEACHERS, WE SHOULD BE TEACHING TOLERANCE, AND WHEN THEY GO OUT INTO THE REAL WORLD, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN TO BE TOLERANT, BECAUSE IF THEY GO OUT AND BUST SOMEBODY IN THE FACE BECAUSE THEY DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY ARE WEARING, THEY HAVE TO GO TO JAIL FOR ASSAULT AND BATTERY, AND TO SAY I DON'T AGREE WITH THEM, THAT THAT IS THEIR OPINION, THAT WE NEED TO TEACH STUDENTS THAT ARE GOING TO BECOME ADULTS AND ACTUALLY CITIZENS OF THE COMMUNITY, VOTING AND STUFF, SO TEACHING TOLERANCE AND LEARNING IT AT A HIGH SCHOOL AGE AND ELEMENTARY AND MIDDLE SCHOOL AGE AS WELL, YOU KNOW, NOT EVERYBODY IS ALWAYS GOING TO AGREE, AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO START TO LEARN THAT NOW, AND TO BE ABLE TO SAY, OKAY, I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU, BUT I CAN COEXIST WITH YOU. THAT IS IMPORTANT.

LET ME GET KEISHA. SHE WAS BACK THERE.

I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT EVERY YEAR IN THE SCHOOLS, WE HAND OUT THE STUDENT CODE CONDUCT -- STUDENT CODES OF CONDUCT, AND IN THAT BOOK, IT EXPLAINS THE SCHOOL POLICIES, CODES, OR WHATEVER. POLICIES, CODES, ALL OF THOSE ARE LAWS, AND I THINK THE STUDENTS, REALLY, NEED TO TAKE THE TIME OUT TO READ THOSE CODES, YOU KNOW, IN THE BOOK, SO THAT THEY CAN BE EDUCATED ABOUT CERTAIN POLICIES OR CERTAIN RULES THAT THEY NEED TO FOLLOW, WITHIN THE SCHOOLS. A LOT OF TIMES, THINGS LIKE DRESS CODE, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE IN THE HANDS, THE CODE HANDBOOK, ARE NOT ENFORCED, AND JUST LIKE WE ARE ALL LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS, AND LAW SHOULD APPLY TO NOT ONLY ADULTS BUT STUDENTS AS WELL, AND I THINK THAT IS THE BEGINNING OF, YOU KNOW, TEACHING THEM TO FOLLOW CERTAIN LAWS, BUT IT IS WITHIN THE SCHOOL, CERTAIN POLICIES, AND AS STUDENTS, THEY NEED TO FOLLOW THOSE POLICIES AND CODES. HOWEVER, WITH THE DRESS CODE, THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM IN THE HIGH SCHOOLS, BECAUSE I AM A TEACHER IN A HIGH SCHOOL, AND I SEE WHERE, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN THINGS LIKE THE HATS, AND I DO UNDERSTAND THAT, WHEN IT IS COLD AND EVERYTHING, THAT THE STUDENTS DO WANT TO WEAR THEIR HATS, BUT YET IN THE COLD, YOU KNOW -- IN THE CODE, IT SAYS NO HATS, NO BANDANNAS AND NONE OF THOSE THINGS, AND I THINK THAT WE NEED TO LEARN TO TAKE THOSE AND APPLY THEM AND FOLLOW THEM, YOU KNOW, AND WITH THE DRESS CODE, LIKE I SAID, THINGS ARE IN THERE, AND THEY ARE NOT BEING ENFORCED, AND I THINK THAT THAT HAS BECOME A BIG PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME STUDENTS THAT GET AWAY WITH, YOU KNOW, WEARING THE BANDANNAS OR THE HATS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND I THINK, ALSO, TEACHERS NEED TO TAKE THE TIME OUT, TO GO OVER THE HANDBOOK WITH THE STUDENTS, YOU KNOW, SO THAT THERE WON'T BE ANY DISCREPANCIES, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WE HAD A MEETING. WE MET WITH THE STUDENTS. WE HAVE, EVERY SEMESTER, WE MEET WITH THE SENIORS, AND WE DISCUSS DIFFERENT THINGS, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME UP, YOU KNOW, ABOUT REGARDING THE HATS OR SOMETHING THAT WAS STATED IN THE STUDENT CODE OF CONDUCT BOOK BUT WASN'T STATED SOMEWHERE ELSE, SO YOU KNOW, THAT IS SOME THINGS THAT I THINK WE, REALLY, SHOULD LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, BUT YOU KNOW, WE ALL MUST, YOU KNOW, FOLLOW THE LAW, AND, ALSO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CERTAIN RULES AND CODES AND POLICIES THAT THE STUDENTS NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY MUST FOLLOW, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY MUST FOLLOW, AND YOU KNOW, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT THAT.

OKAY. LET ME GET ONE MORE. ART. OH, STUDENT, WOULD YOU YIELD YOUR TIME SENATOR?

SURE.

OKAY.

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT I CERTAINLY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN SAID, BUT I CHOSE NUMBER FIVE, AND THE REASON IS ALL OF THESE INCLUDE NUMBER ONE, AND NUMBER ONE SAYS THAT THE SCHOOL SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHOOSE AND REGULATE EVERYTHING, INCLUDING, EXCUSE ME, INCLUDING THE LENGTH OF YOUR HAIR, FACIAL HAIR, AND BODY PIERCINGS, AND THAT IS SOMETHING PERSONAL TO EACH PERSON, IF YOU WANT SHORT HAIR OR LONG HAIR, THAT IS YOUR CHOICE AND YOUR BODY, AND I DON'T THINK THE SCHOOL OR ANYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL YOU THAT YOU CAN OR CANNOT HAVE YOUR HAIR THE WAY YOU WANT TO, OR IF YOU WANT FACIAL HAIR, IF YOU DON'T, THAT IS YOUR CHOICE, AND BODY PIERCINGS ARE, ALSO -- I MEAN, I COULD SEE WHERE THOSE COULD BE TO A POINT WHERE THEY WOULD BE DISRUPTING TO A CLASSROOM ATMOSPHERE, BUT I STILL THINK THAT IS YOUR PERSONAL BODY, AND THAT IS FOR YOU TO CHOOSE.

JUSTICE PARIENTE.

DO YOU SEE A DIFFERENCE, POSSIBLY, BETWEEN REGULATING CHROETH AND REGULATING PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS LIKE HAIR, LENGTH OF HAIR?

CLOTHING OR HAIR. I WAS SMILING, BECAUSE I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT HOW DIFFERENT SCHOOLS ARE FROM THE 60s, WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, BECAUSE WE CERTAINLY, THINGS LIKE BODY PIERCINGS, WHEREVER PEOPLE PIERCE THEIR BODY, NOW, WAS NOT AN ISSUE. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT WOULD FIT IN, OR THE SHRINK BACK SHOES. -- THE SLING BACK SHOES. I THINK THE WORST THAT WE HAD TO WORRY ABOUT WAS WEARING OUR SKIRTS OR WEARING THE ESCORTS. -- THE SKORTS. WHAT WAS YOUR QUESTION?

THAT IS TYPICAL WHEN YOU ARE ARGUING BEFORE THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT. THEY ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS. DO YOU SEE A DIFWRENS, POSSIBLY, BETWEEN MAKING -- A DIFFERENCE, POSSIBLY, BETWEEN MAKING A DECISION OF SOMETHING YOU WEAR TO SCHOOL AS OPPOSED TO THE LENGTH OF THE HAIR OR THE BODY PIERCING, SOMETHING THAT YOU WILL, STILL, HAVE, ONCE YOU ARE OUT OF SCHOOL?

FIRST OF ALL, I SEE A DIFFERENCE, BECAUSE WE ARE SPEAKING AND FOCUSING ON THE FIRST AMENDMENT, IN TERMS OF EXPRESSION, AND ALTHOUGH, CERTAINLY, CLOTHING IS A WAY OF EXPRESSING ONESELF, I THINK THAT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, SAY, WEARING ARM BANDS, IF PEOPLE STILL DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, TO SHOW THEIR SUPPORT FOR OR AGAINST A PARTICULAR CAUSE, IS ACTUALLY A FORM OF SYMBOLIC SPEECH, WHEREAS THE CLOTHING, IF IT IS NOT CONVEYING A MESSAGE, REALLY, ISN'T NECESSARILY IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTION. BUT THERE WOULD BE, IN TERMS OF TRYING TO BALANCE, AS JUSTICE ANSTEAD IS SAYING, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU MIGHT LOOK AT IN THE SCHOOL SETTING IS SOMETHING LIKE YOUR HAIR, SOMETHING THAT WILL BE WITH YOU AS YOU GO OUTSIDE, INTO THE -- TO DO YOURDALE ACTIVITIES, WHEREAS -- YOUR DAILY ACTIVITIES, WHEREAS SOMETHING LIKE CLOTHING, YOU CAN WEAR WHATEVER YOU WANT OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL, BUT THERE MAY BE RESTRICTIONS INSIDE OF SCHOOL, SO PERHAPS WITH HAIR, THERE MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE REASON NOT TO BE AS UNDULY RESTRICTIVE, BECAUSE, AGAIN, THAT IS GOING TO AFFECT THE STUDENT OUTSIDE THE SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT, BUT I THINK THAT THE KEY, AND A LOT OF THIS, IS THAT WHAT IS HARD, AND YOU BROUGHT TP UP, IS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE WANT TO -- YOU BROUGHT IT UP, IS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE WANT -- WE ARE CONCERNED WITH APPROPRIATE DISCIPLINE, MAKING SURE IT IS A LEARNING ENVIRONMENT, BUT HOW TO ENFORCE THAT, SO THAT THE STUDENTS SEE IT AS FAIR AND ENFORCED AND UNIFORMLY ENFORCED, BECAUSE I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT NOT ONLY BECAUSE YOU WANT TO TEACH THE STUDENTS ABOUT RESPECTS THE LAW, BUT YOU, ALSO, WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHILE YOU ARE TEACHING THEM ABOUT THEIR RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES, THAT THAT YOU SHOW THEM A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RESPECT, AND THAT IS WHAT I AM HEARING FROM THE STUDENTS HERE TODAY, AND I AM VERY STRUCK BY ALL OF THE THOUGHTFUL COMMENTS PIE, BOTH, THE STUDENTS AND TEACHERS, AND THINK HOW -- COMMENTS BY, BOTH, THE STUDENTS AND THE TEACHERS, AND THINK HOW WONDERFUL IT WOULD BE, IF EVERYBODY GOT TOGETHER AND CAP UP WITH POLICIES THAT WOULD BE FAIR TO ALL OF THE STUDENTS, AS WELL AS CONDUCIVE TO LEARNING. THAT IS A A TALL ORDER. WE WILL SEE.

MAYBE WE WILL DO THAT. WE WILL COME BACK WITH SCHOOL POLICIES AND REPORTS. PROFESSOR, LET ME ASK YOU THIS. THERE ARE SOME COMMENTS, AND UNDERLYING SOME OF THIS IS THE IDEA THAT CERTAIN TYPES OF CLOTHING OR INSIGNIA OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE IS A FORM OF SPEECH, THAT IT MIGHT BE OFFENSIVE TO OTHER PEOPLE. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE BEST WAY TO HANDLE OFFENSIVE 4.

I WONDER IF STUDENTS WOULD HAVE THE SAME RESPONSE TO CLASS DISCUSSION. IF ARM BANDS WERE PERMITTED AS THEY WALKED IN THE HALLWAY, BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT RESPOND TO THEM IN A WAY THAT THE T-SHIRTS OR ARM BANDS ARE OFFENSIVE. WOULD THEY SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT A CLASS DISCUSSION? YOU HAVE A CLASS DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND SOMEONE STANDS UP AND SAY ALL OF THE BUSH AND GORE STUFF, I AM REALLY FOR PAT BUCHANAN, AND THE REST OF THE STUDENTS WOULD SAY THAT IS REALLY OFFENSIVE, SO SHUT UP. I WOULD HOPE THE ANSWER WOULD BE THAT THAT COULDN'T HAPPEN, AND THAT EVERYONE WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS, CERTAINLY, AN ELEMENT OF FREE EXPRESSION, BUT IF THAT IS AN ELEMENT OF FREE EXPRESSION, TO EXPRESS A POINT OF VIEW ABOUT A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE THAT MOST PEOPLE FIND OUT SIDE THE MAINSTREAM, WHY IS IT NOT, ALSO, FREE EXPRESSION TO WEAR A T-SHIRT OR AN ARM BAND AROUND THE HALLWAY, AND IF THE RESPONSE IS, WELL, THAT IS NOT REALLY EXPRESSION, THEN I THINK IT IS CURIOUS THAT PEOPLE FIGHT SO HARD TO GET THE T-SHIRT OFF THE BACK OF THE STUDENT WHO IS WEARING THE T-SHIRT.

BUT HOW DO YOU HANDLE IT? IF IT IS OFFENSIVE, ISN'T THERE, HOW WOULD YOU SUGGEST YOU HANDLE OVERENS I HAVE SPEECH ON -- OFFENSIVE SPEECH ON SCHOOL GROUNDS? OH, BOY. YOU HAVE GOT TO BASICALLY UNDERSTAND THAT I HIM A FIRST AMENDMENT LAWYER, AND IF ALL THAT YOU CAN COME UP IS TO OFF END SOMEBODY, LET THEM TALK.

AND LET THE PERSON THAT IS OFFENDED, TALK BACK?

YOU BET. AND RESPOND TO GOOD SPEECH AND BAD SPEECH.

GO AHEAD, ART.

FIRST OF ALL, I WANTED TO GREET THE FOLKS IN TALLAHASSEE. LEON, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE OUR ARCH RIVALS IN 6-A, FROM SANDALWOOD HIGH SCHOOL, I WANT HOLD THAT AGAINST YOU. THE SECOND PART, I WANT TO AGREE WITH ALL OF THE STUDENTS SO FAR. I THINK ONE OF THE MAIN AGREEMENTS THAT WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT, AND I THINK IF WE CHANGED A COUPLE OF WORDS IN NUMBER FIVE, MAYBE SOME OF THE VOTES WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT. INSTEAD OF SAYING "REQUIREMENTS OF APPROPRIATE DISCIPLINE, "APPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR". DISCIPLINE, TO ME, IS MEANING YOU HAVE SENT THEM TO THE DEAN OR THE TEACHER HIM ALREADY OR -- HIMSELF OR HERSELF, HAS TAKEN ACTION AND TAKING CARE OF THE PROBLEM, BUT SUPPOSING WE REWORDED THIS AND SAID "INTERFERE WITH REQUIREMENTS OF BEHAVIORS THAT ARE OVERLY PROVOCATIVE OR INFLAMMATORY". SUPPOSING, IN ANSWER TO THE PROFESSOR, HERE, AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH HIM TOTALLY, HERE -- I THINK MY TIME IS CUTOFF? THE CHIEF JUSTICE HAS PUNCHED THE BUTTON. SUPPOSING THAT A KID IS WEARING A T-SHIRT DOWN THERE, AND HE HAS THE SWASTIKA, WITH "WHITE POWER" ALL OVER IT. DO WE NOT CONSIDER THAT TO BE OVERLY PROVOCATIVE IN A SCHOOL WHERE YOU HAVE A MULTIRACIAL, MULTIDIVERSE STUDENT BODY. MY OPINION? YES, IT WOULD BE. WE DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH. THAT I, ALSO, COME FROM A LARGE SCHOOL, AS DO, PROBABLY, SOME OF YOU. WHAT ABOUT A YOUNG LADY WHO, AND THE LADY ADDRESSED THE ISSUE ABOUT BODY PIERCINGS. THE FIRST GENTLEMAN CAME UP, FROM THE STUDENT BODY, TALKED ABOUT HAVING THE STUDENT, I THINK HE CALLED IT A STUDENT ADVISORY COUNCIL.

YES.

WE, TOO, ALSO HAVE THE SAME THING, WHEN OUR NEW PRINCIPAL TOOK OVER, FOURS YEARS AGO, AND THERE HAS BEEN A MARKED CHANGE, BY HAVING THE STUDENTS HAVE A STAKE IN WHAT IS GOING ON HERE. YES, THE SCHOOL BOARD DOES HAVE POLICY-MAKING AUTHORITY. YES, THE SCHOOL BOARD TELLS YOU WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT DO, BUT LEAVE THE SCHOOLS TO RUN THEIR OWN LOCAL ISSUES. AND I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT, THAT EACH SCHOOL DOES. THAT WE HAVE NOT YET GONE TO THE UNIFORM ISSUE FOR HIGH SCHOOLS. THEY TRIED IT IN THE ELEMENTARY LEVEL, AND WE ENDED UP WITH ABOUT 15 PERCENT OF THE KIDS WEARING UNIFORMS. THAT MAY CHANGE. I DON'T KNOW. BUT WHAT THE STUDENTS CAME UP WITH WAS A GOOD IDEA, AND IN ANSWER TO THE YOUNG LADY'S QUESTION OR, I SHOULD SAY, COMMENT. THE BODY PIERCINGS. THERE ARE SOME PARTS OF THE BODY THAT THOSE MOST OF US DON'T, REALLY, WANT TO SEE BODY PIERCINGS, SO WE CAME UP WITH AN IDEA THAT, IF YOU ARE GOING TO WEAR A BLOUSE OR SOMETHING, IT HAS GOT TO COVER THAT PART OF THE BODY WHICH SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO HAVE BODY PIERCINGS. YOU CAN PRETTY MUCH GUESS WHERE I AM TALKING ABOUT. OKAY. THE SAME POINT, HOW ABOUT A BODY PIERCING, THE TONGUE? IS THAT OFFENSIVE TO EVERYONE. YOU KNOW, ALL OF THESE WORDS ABOUT "MAY OFFEND", A LOT OF THINGS OFFEND ME. I DON'T LIKE A GIRL WALKING IN THE HALLWAY WITH PURPLE, BLUE, RED AND GREEN HAIR. TO ME IT ABSOLUTELY LOOSE LUDICROUS, BUT I ACCEPTED IT, BECAUSE I CONSIDER THAT FREE EXPRESSION. SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT SUBSTANTIALLY INTERFERE WITH MY CLASSROOM OR THE BEHAVIOR IN MY CLASSROOM, SO WHAT. IF SHE WANTS TO LOOK LIKE THAT, PEER PRESSURE WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT. THE STUDENTS WILL EVENTUALLY SAY, GEE, WHAT A GEEK OR WHATEVER. BUT, STUDENTS, YOU NEED TO GET INVOLVED. YOU NEED TO GET WITH YOUR FACULTY AND MAKE SURE THAT IT WORKS AND COME UP AND BE REASONABLE AND COMPROMISE AND WORK IT OUT TOGETHER, BECAUSE AS A MODERATOR WITH MY SCHOOL, I FOUND THAT IT WORKS SO MUCH BETTER, WHEN YOU GET INVOLVED, BECAUSE YOU CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN. THAT IS WHY I WENT WITH NUMBER FIVE. IT REALLY HAS TO INTERFERE, BUT I WOULD TAKE IT --

CHANGE THAT WORD A LITTLE BIT.

CHANGE THAT WORD TO "BEHAVIOR", AND BEHAVIOR MAY MAKE YOU THINK MORE ABOUT IT.

BOB, HOLD THAT THOUGHT. I AM GOING TO TAKE THE NEXT THREE QUESTIONS, REALLY, THAT ARE VERY SIMILAR. OKAY. YOU COME NEXT TIME, BUT JUST COME ON UP AND I WILL LET YOU COMMENT, BUT LET ME GET THE ANSWERS. HAVE YOU GOT YOUR RESPONDER WITH YOU THOUGH? GET YOUR RESPONDER, SO THAT YOU CAN VOTE ON THESE NEXT THREE, AND THAT IS C, D, AND E.

POLITICAL SPEECH IT IS DEFINED. IS IT APPROPRIATE TO TAKE THE CONTENT OF POLITICAL SPEECH AS TO WHETHER IT IS APPROPRIATE OR NOT? IT SHOULD TAKE YOU ABOUT FIVE SECONDS TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. 5-4-3-2-1. LET'S SEE WHAT WE HAVE GOT. 63 PERCENT SAY YES. 37, NO. OKAY. LET'S SEE WHAT D IS. ONLY THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDENTS ARE BEING CITED FOR VIOLATINGS THE "NO HATS" POLICY AS. IS THAT -- POLICY. IS THAT APPROPRIATE FOR THE USE OR ENFORCEMENT OF DRESS CODE? TAKE ABOUT FIVE SECONDS TO ANSWER THAT ONE. 5-4-3-2-1. WHAT DOES THAT SAY? OKAY. 63. AND 37. THAT IS TWO AND 98. OKAY. LET'S TAKE E. THE DRESS CODE PERMITS FEMALE STUDENTS TO WEAR EARRINGS BUT PROHIBITS MALE STUDENTS FROM WEARING EARRINGS, AS MANY MALE STUDENTS WERE WEARING EARRINGS TO SHOW THEIR GANG AFFILIATION. IS IT APPROPRIATE TO BASE IT ON GENDER? YOU TOP HONOR STUDENTS. THAT MEANS WLU ARE A MAN OR A WOMAN. -- THAT MEANS WHETHER YOU ARE A MAN OR A WOMAN. 5-4-3-2-1. THAT MEANS EQUAL PROTECTION, BASED ON SOME DIFFERENT GROUP SOMETHING.

YEAH. EQUAL PROTECTION AND THERE IS, ALSO, A FREE SPEECH DOCTRINE. CAN YOU DISCRIMINATE AGAINST ONE PERSON, BASED ON THE CONTENT OF THEIR SPEECH, BASED ON THE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION?

IF THE CITY IS GOING TO PAY FOR UNIFORMS. PERSONALLY I AIN'T GOING TO BUY NO UNIFORMS. I COULD BE SPENDING MONEY ON SOMETHING LIKE, I AM A BIG MAN. I WOULDN'T WANT A BIG DESK. ONE OR TWO IN THE CLASSROOM. YOU KNOW, SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE CLASSIER OR SOMETHING LIKE. THAT THE ONLY REAL RULES THAT YOU NEED AROUND THE SCHOOL, ANYWAY, IS RESPECT AND HONOR, REALLY. IF YOU AIN'T GOT NO SELF RESPECT OR RESPECT FOR ANYBODY ELSE, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO, REALLY, GOING TO PREPARE, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO WEAR SOMETHING? IF SOMEBODY HAS TONGUE RINGS, IT DON'T MEAN THEY DON'T SELF RESPECT THEIRS. IT JUST MEANS THEY WANT TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR SELF. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU CAN'T JUDGE SOMEBODY LIE BUY HOW THEY LOOK OR THE WAY THEY ACT, IF THEY HAVE GOT PURPLE HAIR, LET THEM WEAR PURPLE HAIR. IF THEY ARE OFFENDING SOMEBODY, LET THE PERSON THAT IS OFFENDED TELL THEM. YOU CAN'T SAY THAT TO SOMEBODY WHO IS OVERWEIGHT. YOU TELL THEM I AM OVERWEIGHT BECAUSE I EAT GOOD.

THAT IS A GOOD BASIS TO START THE WHOLE CODE WITH, ISN'T IT? SORT OF LIKE THE GOLDEN RULE? TREAT EVERYBODY LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED?

IF YOU GIVE RESPECT, YOU ARE GOING TO GET RESPECT, AND IF YOU GIVE HONOR, YOU ARE GOING TO GET HONOR. THAT IS HOW IT IS GOING TO BE, FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

THANK YOU. ON THAT ONE THAT WAS "D", THERE WAS A REAL HIGH PERCENTAGE THAT SAID NO. 98 PERCENT OF YOU SAID NO. I HAVE A QUESTION, THOUGH. WHAT IF -- I THINK EVERYBODY IS SAYING, WELL, YOU CAN'T JUST SAY, OKAY, ALL YOU AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDENTS, YOU CAN'T WEAR HATS. WHAT IF, BASICALLY, IT IS ONLY A CERTAIN GROUP, WHETHER IT IS BY GENDER OR BY RACE OR ETHNICITY OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, BUT ONLY IF IT HAPPENS TO BE THAT GROUP, AND YOU SAY, WELL, I NOTICE THAT WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE, YOU MENTION HATS OR JACKETS OR SOMETHING THAT HAD GANG INSIGNIA ON IT, ONLY FOR A PARTICULAR GROUP, WHETHER IT IS AFRICAN-AMERICAN OR WHETHER IT IS -- WELL, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IT HAS TO DO WITH WOMEN, BUT IF YOU JUST DO IT ACROSS THE BOARD AND IT JUST HAPPENS THAT YOU HAVE A BLANKET POLICY YOU CAN'T WEAR "X", IT SO HAPENCE THAT A PARTICULAR RACIAL GROUP THAT WEARS A PARTICULAR THING, DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO YOU? YOU HAD THE COURAGE TO STAND UP HERE. ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT, IF -- YOU SHOULD STILL HAVE THE BLANKET POLICY, WHERE IT COVERS EVERYONE, BUT JUST BECAUSE IT TARGETS -- IT DOESN'T TARGET A CERTAIN GROUP. IT JUST -- THEY HAPPEN TO BE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING THAT. AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE POLICY SO IT COVERS EVERYONE, SO YOU DON'T MAKE THEM THINK THAT YOU ARE TARGETING THEM. BECAUSE IF YOU DO THAT, THEN THEY WILL LASH OUT OR LASH BACK AT YOU AND, LIKE, WITH THE AFRICAN-AMERICANS, SOME WHITE PEOPLE WEAR HATS, TOO, AND IT MIGHT JUST BE LIKE THREE WHITE PEOPLE AND A WHOLE BUNCH OF BLACK PEOPLE, BUT IT, STILL, YOU STILL NEED TO HAVE THAT WHOLE POLICY FOR EVERYONE AND NOT JUST FOR ONE CERTAIN RACIAL GROUP OR ONE CERTAIN GENDER.

YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ELSE THAT IS IMPORTANT, TOO. YOU SAID IF THEY THINK THEY ARE BEING SINGLED OUT, EVEN IF YOU ARE NOT SINGLING THEM OUT BUT THE PERCEPTION IS THAT YOU ARE, THAT IS A PROBLEM, TOO, RIGHT? ELLEN.

YES. I THINK THAT PRINCIPAL BELDING HAS A WHOLE LOT OF PROBLEMS, AND SOME OF HIS PROBLEMS ARE OF HIS OWN HAEING, -- HIS OWN MAKING, BECAUSE HE IS VERY ARBITRARY IN MAKING HIS DECISIONS. ONE TIME IT WILL BE THIS WAY AND ONE TIME IT WILL BE ANOTHER WAY, AND I THINK WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS AFTERNOON OR LATER ON, TODAY, IS WORK OUT HOW A POLICY SHOULD BE MADE, AND I THINK THAT I THINK THE POLICY SHOULD, AS THE ONE LADY SAID, IT SHOULD SERVE AN EDUCATIONAL PURPOSE, SO IF YOU HAVE A DRESS CODE OR WHATEVER TYPE OF CODE THAT YOU HAVE, IT SHOULD SERVE AN EDUCATIONAL PURPOSE. THAT INCLUDES EVERYTHING, RELATING TO SAFETY AND DISCIPLINE, KIND OF AN OVERALL ENCOMPASSING EDUCATIONAL PURPOSE.

GO BACK AND LOOK AT ALL OF THE REGULATIONS. WHATEVER YOU ARE GOING TO REGULATE, LOOK AND SAY WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF US BEING HERE? WE ARE HERE TO EDUCATE STUDENTS, AND WHATEVER deTRACTS FROM THAT MAY BE THE BASIS FOR SOME -- DETRACTS FROM THAT MAY BE THE BASIS FOR SOME REGULATION.

I THINK A BLANKET POLICY THAT APPLIES TO EVERYONE, BUT SOMETHING I NOTICED ABOUT QUESTION E, WHICH IS SHOULD GENDER BE LOOKED AT DIFFERENTLY OR SHOULD YOU LOOK AT GENDER? I NOTICE THAT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS, IF YOU DON'T SEPARATE BOYS FROM GIRLS, SOMETIMES, IN WHAT THEY WEAR, NO JOKE, WE HAD A BOY COME TO SCHOOL IN FEMALE ATTIRE, BECAUSE HE PREFERS TO CROSS-DRESS. THAT IS A HUGE DISRUPTION TO THE CLASSROOM, AND YET, IF YOU DIDN'T DEAL MALE TO FEMALE DIFFERENTLY, IN THAT CASE, THERE IS NO BLANKET POLICY FOR THAT, AND SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS HUGELY DISRUPTIVE TO A SCHOOL, TO SEE A BOY WALKING DOWN THE HALLWAY IN FISH NET STOCKINGS, HEALS, AND A PRETTY DRESS AND LOTS OF MAKEUP, SO ALTHOUGH I BELIEVE IN TREATING, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT BE GENDER OR RACE OR WHATEVER, GENERALLY THE SAME, THERE ARE ALWAYS LOOPHOLES AND SITUATIONS WHERE PROBLEMS COME UP, WHERE ADMINISTRATION HAS TO BE ABLE TO SAY, OKAY, NOW WE HAVE GOT A PROBLEM, AND MAKE A REASONABLE YET A STANDARD DECISION, IF IT WOULD EVER HAPPEN AGAIN, SOMETHING THAT IS CONSISTENT.

IT COULD BE GENDER NEUTRAL, THOUGH, RIGHT? FEMALES CAN'T DRESS LIKE MEN AND MALES CAN'T DRESS LIKE FEMALES. SOMEBODY, I THINK IT WAS BOB BEFORE. SOMEBODY HAD THEIR HAND UP. I DIDN'T WANT TO MISS. GO AHEAD, BOB.

OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A REALLY COMPLEX ISSUE AND THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE IN ANY OF THIS. HOW DO YOU DEFINE FREE EXPRESSION? WHAT EXPRESSION OF PERSONAL APPEARANCE ARE CONSIDERED DISRUPTIVE OR CREATES PROBLEMS WITHIN THE CLASSROOM AND DISRUPTS THE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT? IS A HAT OR PURPLE HAIR OR BAGGY PANTS OR A HEAD BAND CONSIDERED, REALLY, DISRUPTIVE? IN ONE CLASS A TEACHER CAN ACCEPT IT AND TEACH THE CLASS WITHOUT ANY PROBLEM, OR FROM ONE COMMUNITY TO ANOTHER COMMUNITY OR FROM ONE ETHNIC GENERATION TO ANOTHER, OR WHAT I MIGHT CONSIDER IS ACCEPTABLE MIGHT NOT BE WHAT THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE GROUP FEEL IS ACCEPTABLE, AND, AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE ANY KIND OF UNIFORM CONSISTENT POLICIES FROM ONE CITY TO ANOTHER CITY OR FROM ONE SCHOOL TO ANOTHER SCHOOL. EVEN WITHIN MY OWN SCHOOL, WE HAVE A POLICY WHERE YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE A HAT. YOU SEE THE HATS EVERYWHERE. SOME TEACHERS LET THE KIDS WEAR THE HATS, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T DISRUPT THAT CLASSROOM, AND HE DOESN'T MAKE AN ISSUE OUT OF IT. OTHERS ARE CONSISTENTLY TRYING TO ENFORCE IT. IF THE SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION IS NOT CONSISTENT, AS KELLY SAID, HOW CAN YOU EXPECT TEACHERS TO SET A POLICY THAT IS NOT ENFORCED BY THE ADMINISTRATION. YOU KNOW, IT IS OBVIOUSLY A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE, AND THERE IS ANOTHER ISSUE ABOUT BACKPACKS. IS THAT CONSIDERED A SAFETY ISSUE, IF YOU ALLOW -- SOME SCHOOLS WILL SAY, WELL, WEAPONS COULD BE CARRIED ON. SINCE WE HAVE HAD THE COLUMBINE PROBLEM AND THERE IS SORT OF THIS FEAR THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOMEONE BRINGING IN A WEAPON, IS THAT CONSIDERED UNACCEPTABLE, TO CARRY A BACKPACK? WELL, IT IS A SAFETY ISSUE, PERHAPS. IS IT PROVOCATIVE? SOME THINGS, WEARING SHIRTS THAT SAY PROMOTING THE USE OF DRUGS, MARIJUANA LEAVE, IS THIS ACCEPTABLE OR IS THIS, OBVIOUSLY, SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY, NO, IT ISN'T. OTHERS SAY IT IS JUST YOUNG PEOPLE EXPRESSING THEIR VIEWS, FEELINGS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWERS ARE, AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY HERE KNOWS, BECAUSE IT VARIES FROM ONE PERSON TO THE NEXT PERSON, FROM ONE COMMUNITY TO ANOTHER, AND I AM SURE --

LET ME GET JACKIE UP THERE.

YES. I DO BELIEVE, AND I FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THIS, IS THAT WE DO NEED TO ABIDE TO OUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT, AND BECAUSE OF THAT BE, I DO FEEL, EVEN THOUGH I MIGHT HAVE, AS A TEACHER, SOMETIMES DISAGREE WITH IT, THAT STUDENTS SHOULD NOT BE TREATED DIFFERENT, BASED ON GENDER OR ETHNICITY. FOR EXAMPLE, BUT THEN WE HAVE TO COME TO A COMMON GROUND, AND THEN WE HAVE TO COME TO WHAT IS APPROPRIATE AND WHAT IS NOT APPROPRIATE, AND THAT IS WHAT THE STUDENT COUNCIL BODY, TOGETHER WITH THE ADMINISTRATION AND TEACHERS, SHOULD WORK TOGETHER. I THINK THAT IS AN INCREDIBLE IDEA. BUT WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BODY PIERCINGS, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM IF A KID PIRZ HER EAR OR A BOY -- PIERCES HER EAR OR A BOY, FOR THAT MATTER MATTER, BUT SOMETIMES THEY PIERCE THEIR LIPS, AND THAT DOES ENTIRE FEAR WITH THE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT, BECAUSE THE CHILD IS NOT ABLE TO TALK. I MEAN, REALLY, YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND THAT PERSON, SO WE HAVE TO COME TO WHAT IS PERMISSIBLE AND WHAT IS NOT PERMISSIBLE, AND WHAT IS OFFENSIVE AND WHAT IS NOT OFFENSIVE, AND I DO BELIEVE THAT THAT IS WHERE THE PROBLEM COMES.

WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD.

MR. ROSILLO PRETTY MUCH NAILED EVERYTHING THAT I WAS GOING TO SAY, BEFORE I GOT UP HERE. SPEAKING AS A GUY WHO WEARS AN EARRING, I AM NOT WEARING IT, TODAY, I PUT DOWN THAT I DON'T THINK IT IS OKAY TO DO IT BASED ON GENDER, BUT IN A LOT OF CASES, UNLESS I TAKE YOU OUT AND JAB YOU IN THE EYE WITH IT, YOU CAN'T CALL IT A SAFETY ISSUE AND YOU CAN'T CALL IT, IN ANY KIND OF WAY, DISTURBING THE CLASSROOM. AS FAR AS PIERCEINGS ON THE FACE, EVERYTHING ELSE, I AM NOT REALLY -- I KNOW GUYS WHO HAVE PIERCED TONGUES, PIERCED NOSES. I AM NOT GOING TO GET INTO. THAT I, PERSONALLY, WOULDN'T DO IT, BUT IN A LOT OF CASES THEY CAN COMMUNICATE JUST FINE. IT MAY JUST BE THAT THE STUDENT CHOOSES TO TALK THAT WAY, SIMPLY TO DISTURB. HE IS SIMPLY DOING IT FOR THE SAKE OF DISTURBING, WHILE OTHERS CAN SPEAK JUST FIND WITH A METAL STUD STICKING OUT OF THEIR FACE. SO I THINK THAT, REALLY, IN CASES LIKE THAT, IT REALLY SHOULD BE MORE DISCRIMINATORY THAN, JUST, YOU HAVE IT. YOU SHOULDN'T. I AM GOING TO BAN YOU FROM THE CLASSROOM.

I AM JUST CURIOUS ON THE STUDENTS HERE. HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, IN TERMS OF DISTRACTING TO YOU TO HAVE PEOPLE WITH ALL KINDS OF WEIRD BODY PIERCINGS. I DON'T SEE ANY HANDS RAISED, TEACHERS. IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BOTHER THE STUDENTS. NOT A STUDENT, ARE YOU?

STUDENTS? NO STUDENTS? IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME. YES, MA'AM.

SOMETHING THAT I HAVE BEEN NOTICING AND I HAVE JUST BEEN WANTING TO SAY, I GUESS, IS THAT A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT ADMINISTRATORS AND TEACHERS HAVE PROBLEMS WITH ARE NOT, REALLY, THAT BIG OF A DEAL WITH STUDENTS, JUST LIKE YOU JUST ASKED THAT QUESTION DO YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH FACIAL PIERCINGS, AND WEIRD STUFF LIKE THAT. I MEAN, NOBODY, REALLY, NONE OF THE STUDENTS, REALLY, I DON'T THINK FIND IT THAT BIG OF A DEAL, BECAUSE IT IS JUST WAY THAT OUR CULTURE IS RIGHT NOW, AND I THINK THAT A LOT OF THE REASON THAT THIS IS MADE SUCH A BIG DEAL IS BECAUSE OF THE ADMINISTRATION THAT PUTS ATTENTION ON IT AND CALLS ATTENTION TO IT AND MAKES IT A BIG DEAL IN THE CLASSROOM. I KNOW THAT, IN MY SCHOOL LAST YEAR OR IN PREVIOUS YEARS, WE HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITH THE DRESS CODE, AS FAR AS SPAGHETTI STRAPS AND LESS THAN AN INCH STRAP, AND NOBODY THAT I KNOW OF, REALLY, CARED ABOUT IT. IT WAS MORE OF A DISTRACTION TO HAVE THE TEACHER GO AROUND AND TRY TO SINGLE OUT EVERYBODY, THAN TO ACTUALLY WEAR THE CLOTHING TO SCHOOL. I THINK THAT A LOT OF TIMES, TEACHERS BLOW STUFF OUT OF PROPORTION, BECAUSE IT IS NOT WHAT THEY GREW UP WITH AND IT IS NOT WHAT THEY ARE USED TO, BUT AT THE SAME TIME A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE ADULTS, NOW, HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS GROWING UP, AND THEY JUST DON'T, MAYBE, REMEMBER THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU WEREN'T ALLOWED TO WEAR THE BLACK ARM BANDS. GUYS HAD LONG HAIR.

THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO. WE TRY TO REMEMBER.

BUT I JUST THINK THAT A LOT OF TIMES A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY JUST DRAWING ATTENTION TO SOMETHING THAT, REALLY, IS NOT THAT BIG AFTER DEAL, AS FAR AS STUDENTS ARE CONCERNED.

YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT. A LOT OF THIS IS GENERATIONAL, I TAKE IT, IN TERMS OF ALL OF US THAT ARE A LITTLE OLDER CAN REMEMBER WHERE THE PRINCIPAL SAID "TUCK IN THAT SHIRT". THAT THAT WAS A VIOLATION OF THE DRESS CODE. YOU COULD NOT WEAR T-SHIRTS. FORGET ABOUT IT. YOU COULDN'T WEAR ANYTHING THAT DIDN'T HAVE A LABEL. ALL OF THAT STUFF. I AM GOING TO HAVE TO GO QUICK, SO LET ME GET TO SOMEBODY THAT THIS HAD THEIR HAND UP A LONG TIME AGO. KEISHA, AND THEN I WILL MOVE ON REAL QUICK.

I GUESS I WAS TRYING TO RENDER THE EFFECTS OF MY STUDENTS, BUT IN MY SCHOOL, WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH TEACHERS VIOLATING THE DRESS CODE. THEY COME IN WITH SHOES WITH NO STRAPS ON THEM. THEY COME IN WITH, AND I DON'T KNOW WHY, SPAGHETTI STRAPS. THE PRINCIPAL IS CONSTANTLY REMINDING THEM. BUT THE REASON THE PRINCIPALS CAN'T DO VERY MUCH WITH THE TEACHERS IS BECAUSE WE HAVE BTU, AND THAT MEANS THAT THE UNION WILL COME IN AND DEFEND THE TEACHERS, BUT WE ARE VIOLATORS, ALSO. WE DON'T FOLLOW THE DRESS CODE. I WOULD NOT HAVE YOU BELIEVE THAT. I DO, BUT HALF OF MY FACULTY DOES NOT, AND MY PRINCIPAL SAYS IN OUR SCHOOL, CHEWING GUM IS A PART OF THE STUDENT CONDUCT CODE BOOK. YOU DO NOT CHEW GUM. TEACHERS SIT AT THE FACULTY MEETING AND CHEW, IT AND MY PRINCIPAL SAYS HOW COULD YOU REPRIMAND THE STUDENTS OR ENFORCE THE RULES, WHEN YOU ARE VIOLATING, SO I NEED YOU TO KNOW THAT WE ARE NOT PERFECT, AND SOMETIMES WE DO MAKE A BIG DEAL OUT OF NOTHING, BUT IT IS HARD FOR ME TO SAY SOMETHING TO YOU ABOUT WEARING STRAPLESS SHOES, BECAUSE AS SOON AS I SEND YOU TO THE OFFICE, YOU ARE GOING TO SAY TO THE PRINCIPAL, WELL, SHE HAS THEM ON, AND THAT MIGHT BE A PART OF THE PROBLEM. WE NEED TO BE PARTAKERS, FIRST, OF THOSE RULES THAT WE HAVE SET DOWN.

DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO. KEISHA.

I AM A FIRM BELIEVER OF WE NEED TO DEFINITELY LEAD BY EXAMPLE, SO I CAN RELATE TO WHAT SHE IS SAYING, THAN IS WHY AS A TEACHER, AND I WORK IN A HIGH SCHOOL, AND I AM A YOUNG TEACHER, BUT IN REGARDS TO WHAT THE YOUNG LADY WAS SAYING ABOUT THE SPAGHETTI STRAPS, OKAY, AND YOU KNOW, WHICH I CAN RELATE TO THEY ARE COOL, AND I CAN RELATE TO SPAGHETTI STRAPS, AND I CAN WEAR A SPAGHETTI STRAP DRESS, BUT THERE IS A TIME AND A PLACE FOR EVERYTHING, AND I FEEL IT IS INAPPROPRIATE TO WEAR SPAGHETTI STRAPS, AND IT IS IN THE CODE HANDBOOK THAT THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO THE DRESS CODE, SO I MEAN, HEY, IF YOU WANT TO WEAR YOUR SPAGHETTI STRAPS, DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE OTHER THAN SCHOOL. MAYBE A PROMISE OR A BALL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE AT SCHOOL, AND SOMETIMES LIKE THAT THINGS LIKE THAT CAN DISRUPT THE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT, AND THE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT, AS A TEACHER, ESPECIALLY IN MY CLASSROOM, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE ENVIRONMENT IS CONDUCIVE TO LEARNING, SO WHENEVER THERE IS, YOU KNOW, A DISRUPTION, LIKE THAT, OR MAYBE EVEN IF THE SKIRTS ARE TOO SHORT OR WHATEVER, HEY, YOU KNOW, AND -- OR THE SPLITS ARE TOO HIGH, YOU KNOW, THAT MAY INTERRUPT WHAT I AM TRYING TO DO, AND YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS DELIVERING MY INSTRUCTIONS OR TEACHING MY STUDENTS, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I HIM EDUCATING MY STUDENTS, AND WHEN THEY LEAVE AT THE END OF THE DAY, THAT THEY DO TAKE SOMETHING WITH THEM THAT THEY HAVE LEARNED. AS FAR AS I DO KNOW THAT IT IS A DIFFERENT TIME AND IT IS A DIFFERENT GENERATION, AND I CAN RELATE TO THAT, SO I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE PIERCEINGS. IT HAS NOT INTERFERED IN MY CLASSROOM. THE COLOR OF THE HAIR. YOU KNOW, WHAT THE YOUNG MAN HAD STATED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE WE DON'T NEED TO JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER, YOU KNOW, BUT YOUR ATTITUDE AND YOUR BEHAVIOR DOES SAY A LOT ABOUT WHO YOU ARE. SO FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE AMENDMENT, THE FIRST AMENDMENT, IT IS VERY VAGUE. IT IS NOT CLEAR, A LOT OF THE THINGS, AND THAT IS WHY THERE IS CONTROVERSY, AND YOU THOUGH, JUST THINGS LIKE THAT IS, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, A LOT OF -- I THINK A LOT OF THE LAWS AND THE AMENDMENTS, THINGS ARE NOT SPECIFIC, AND THEY NEED TO BE CLEAR AND SPECIFIC, SO WE WILL KNOW WHAT IS APPROPRIATE AND WHAT IS NOT.

WE WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT. WE ARE GOING TO MAKE A VERY SPECIFIC -- I HAVE GOT TO GO. SORRY, STUDENTS, TO THE NEXT ONE. WE ARE GETTING CLOSE. WE HAVE ONLY GOT A FEW MORE MINUTES, AND I WANT TO HANDLE SOMETHING ON DUE PROCESS FORM LET'S GET TO J THROUGH L.

YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO AN ATTORNEY OR O'CLOCK GET ONE IF YOU ARE AFFORD ONE OR YOU GET ONE, PERIOD. YOU DON'T GET TO ASK WHICH YOU GET, EITHER. WHAT IS THE ATTORNEY'S NAME AND I WILL TELL YOU. NO. OKAY. EVERYBODY READY WITH YOUR ANSWER? 5-4-3-2-1. ALL RIGHT. WHAT HAVE WE GOT? OKAY. FAIRLY EVENLY SPLIT BUT A LOT OF YOU THINK YOU OUGHT TO HAVE A LAWYER. 44 PERCENT. 29 PERCENT. THE MAJORITY, AT LEAST, IF YOU CAN AFFORD ONE, EVERYBODY, JUST ABOUT.

IS THIS STUDENTS OR TEACHERS? TEACHERS? STUD SNENTS NOT THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE BUT A LITTLE MORE. A LITTLE MORE RIGHTS FROM THE STUDENTS. HOW WITH "K", ETHICS EXPULSION HEARING. WHO SHOULD DETERMINE WHETHER THE STUDENT SHOULD BE EXPELLED? HAVE YOU CONSIDERED YOUR ANSWERS NOW? ARE YOU READY TO VOTE IN WE WILL TAKE FIVE SECONDS. 5-4-3-2-1.

EVERYBODY WENT WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD. ANOTHER SCHOOL BOARD, BY MAJORITY VOTE. OKAY. THAT LOOKS LIKE THE HIGHEST. THAT IS FOR THE STUDENTS OR THE TEACHERS? EVERYBODY. LET'S SEE IF WE BREAK THEM OUT AND SEE. I DON'T SEE MUCH DIFFERENCE. LET ME SEE. THAT IS THE TEACHERS OR THE STUDENTS? THOSE ARE STUDENTS. A LITTLE LESS FOR THE SCHOOL BOARD, FOR THE STUDENTS. THAT IS NOT UNEXPECTED, I WOULD THINK. HOW ABOUT "L"? AND FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS QUESTION, ASSUME THAT PRINCIPAL BELDING IS ARGUING FOR EXPULSION AT THE HEARING. THE QUESTION IS WHAT SHOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE STANDARD OF PROOF? 0-4-3-2-1. OKAY. WE HAVE GOT A VERY HIGH RACIAL YO. LET'S -- RATIO. LET'S BEAK THAT OUT TO STUDENTS AND TEACHERS. STILL 56 PERCENT, HIGH THERE THE. HOW ABOUT STUDENTS? EVEN HIGHER. OKAY. WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THAT -- WELL, LET ME ASK PROFESSOR -- WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THIS IDEA? I HEARD OF THIS IDEA OF LOCA PARENTIS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THAT?

IT IS BEING SUPERSEDED BY CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOM. YOU HAVE A LOT MORE DUE PROCESS IN THIS ROOM THAN YOU DO IN THE REAL WORLD. JUST BE AWARE OF THAT. EVEN IN LOCA PARENTIS, IT IS RESTRICTED. ALWAYS HAS BEEN. THERE ARE RESTRICTIONS ON WHAT THE SCHOOL CAN DO BY WAY OF ACTING IN PLACE OF THE PARENTS. THERE ARE TERMS OF VIOLATIONS OF CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, SO IT HAS ALWAYS EXISTED. THE SCHOOL HAS ALWAYS HAD A PARENTAL ROLE, WHILE THE STUDENT IS AT SCHOOL, BUT IT IS RESTRICTED, AND THIS IS ONE WAY THAT IT IS RESTRICTED, DUE PROCESS.

SO JUSTICE ANSTEAD.

DUE PROCESS. SOMETIMES I HEAR THAT WORD OVER IN THE LEGISLATURE, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY ARE ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING, WHEN DHE SAY DUE PROCESS, BUT NOBODY HAS A HANDLE ON IT. CAN WE GET SOME CLARIFICATION ON THIS? WHAT DOES DUE PROCESS MEAN?

IN DUE PROCESS, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE PROCEDURE THAT YOU MUST GO THROUGH, BEFORE YOU SERIOUSLY AFFECT A RIGHT THAT SOMEBODY HAS OR ACT AGAINST THEM. IT DEPENDS ON IF WHAT IS HAPPENING IS LESS DUE PROCESS THAN IS GIVEN TO YOU. IF THE PRINCIPAL SAYS I DON'T LIKE YOU RUNNING DOWN THE HALL AND DON'T DO IT ANYMORE, THAT IS ABOUT ALL OF THE DUE PROCESS THAT YOU ARE DUE, IN RUNNING DOWN THE HALL. ON THE OTHER HAND, AS YOU CAN SEE BY THE RESPONSES HERE, INTUITIVELY, I THINK WE HAVE, ALL, RESPONDED THAT THE MORE SERIOUS, THE CONSEQUENCE IS, TO SOMEBODY, AND I THINK WE, ALL, REGARD BEING EXPELLED FROM SCHOOL IS A VERY SERIOUS CONSEQUENCE, THEN THE MORE PROCESS IS DUE TO YOU, AND WHILE THEY MAY NOT BE THE EXACT THING THAT IS WE HAVE ANSWERED HERE, THE COURTS, GENERALLY, HAVE RESPONDED IN THE SAME WAY. AND THAT IS THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A MORE ELABORATE PROCEDURE. THERE IS GOING TO BE A HEAVIER BURDEN, AND YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE MORE PROCEDURAL RIGHTS, YOU KNOW, SUCH AS BEING ABLE TO BRING AN ATTORNEY, IF NOT BEING ENTITLED TO AN ATTORNEY. THE MORE SERIOUS THE CONSEQUENCES ARE TO YOU. AND IT APPLIES AS WELL, TO THE SETTING OF HOW STUDENTS MAY BE DISCIPLINED IN SCHOOL. SO THAT IS WHAT WE MEAN, BAY THE NOTION OF DUE PROCESS, AND ORDINARILY, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE FUNDAMENTAL THING OF HAVING NOTICE OF WHAT IT IS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE DONE WRONG. OKAY. AND AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD ON THAT, AND SO, BUT, AGAIN, IF YOU CAN IMAGINE THE SCALE THAT THAT IS A PRETTY GOOD RULE OF THUMB TO FOLLOW THERE, THAT THE MORE SERIOUS THE CONSEQUENCE, THAT THE MORE PROCESS IS GOING TO BE DUE TO YOU.

VERY GOOD. THAT CLARIFIED IT FOR ME. I AM GLAD. THANK YOU. LET ME ASK THE TEACHERS, BECAUSE I GET THE IMPRESSION, STILLS, THE TEACHERS ARE FRUSTRATED BY THE PROCEDURAL REQUIREMENT THAT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH, IN ORDER TO DISCIPLINE A STUDENT. DOES ANYBODY HAVE THOSE FRUSTRATIONS, OR AM I JUST IMAGEENING THAT? NOBODY? ART, TELL US ABOUT IT.

I WON'T SPEAK FOR ALL OF THE TEACHERS HERE, BUT I THINK MOST OF US DO HAVE FRUSTRATIONS, BECAUSE ALL OF US COME FROM DIFFERENT SCHOOL DISTRICTS, DIFFERING POLICIES AND DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS. ALL OF THEM ARE SUPPORTIVE. SOME OF THEM ARE NOT. I DISAGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUES, IN PARTICULAR IN MY SCHOOL, TOO, THERE ARE, ALSO, TEACHERS WHO DON'T OBEY THE DRESS CODE AS WELL, BUT THE FACT IS THAT WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH SO MANY HOOPS AND SO MANY STEPS, TO TAKE CARE OF THE MOST SIMPLISTIC PROBLEM, AND I AGREE WITH WHAT MOST OF THE STUDENTS HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW, THAT A LOT OF STUFF DOESN'T BOTHER ME IN MY CLASS, BECAUSE THE KIDS KNOW ME AND I KNOW THE KIDS. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO STEP OVER THE LINE, BUT WHEN I AM OUT IN THE HALL, DOING HALL DUTY, AND SOME KID WALKS UP TO YOU AND USES AN EPI THAT THE AND FLIPS ---EPITHAT AND FLIPS YOU THE YOU KNOW WHAT, THEN I HAVE TO GO THROUGH 15 STEPS OR I GET SUSPENDED. WE HAVE TO PROVE NOT BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, BECAUSE IT IS A REASONABLE OFFENSE. I WOULD THINK WE USE THE PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE HERE. THAT WOULD BE MORE SIMPLE TO ME. IT IS DISRESPECTFUL TO ME AND SO ON AND SO ON, BUT I MUST CONFRONT THE LAWYER, FOR SOMETHING MORE THAN A FIVE-DAY SUSPENSION. NOT JUST AN EXPULSION. IT TAKES SIX MONTHS TO EXPEL A STUDENT IN OUR COUNTY, AND IN THE MEANTIME, YES, WE CAN SEND THAT KID TO AN ALTERNATIVE SCHOOL, BUT EVENTUALLY THAT KID COMES BACK, AFTER 60 OR 90 DAYS, WAITING FOR HIS HEARING, AND THEN HE IS PRANSING AROUND THE CAMPUS, SAYING, SEE, NOTHING HAPPENED TO ME. I AM GOING TO GET THAT GUY. IT IS A LOT OF FRUSTRATION.

IT TIME TO TAKE ALL OF THIS ENLIGHTENED DISCUSSION THAT WE HAVE HAD AND TAKE IT INTO SMALL GROUPS AND SAY WE ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. WE HAVE TO COME UP WITH A SCHOOL POLICY AND OUTLINE THE WAY OF ENFORCING OR COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT WE THINK IS APPROPRIATE AND COME UP WITH THE MANNER IN WHICH WE ARE GOING TO DO. THAT HOW MUCH TIME DO WE HAVE FOR THIS? OKAY.

BY 11:20.

I HAVE GOT A MICROPHONE. BUT YOU TALK A LOT LOUDER, ANYWAY. FINISH UP BY ELEVEN, THE FOLKS THAT ARE HERE, WHEREVER YOU GO, FINISH UP BY 11:20. YOU HAVE GOT A TEN-MINUTE STRETCH BREAK, BUT MAKE SURE YOU ARE BACK HERE. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE FILMING IT AND PEOPLE COMING IN AND OUT. WHERE DO WE GO?

THE WAY THAT YOU DETERMINE YOUR GROUP IS BY THE COLORED DO THE ON YOUR NAME TAG. IF -- THE COLORED DOT ON YOUR NAME TAG. IF YOU HAVE NO DOT, YOU ARE GOING TO STAY IN THIS ROOM, AND JUDGE LEWIS IS GOING TO BE YOUR GROUP FACILITATOR. IF YOU HAVE A RED DOT, IN THE BACK, IS GOING TO LEAD YOUR GROUP. YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO ANNETTE IN THAT CORNER. SHOW WHERE THE LEADERS ARE, AND THEN EVERYBODY CAN MOVE AT ONCE. IF YOU HAVE A YELLOW DOT, YOU ARE GOING TO GO WITH JODIE WILCOX, OVER IN THIS CORNER. IF YOU HAVE A GREEN DOT, YOU ARE GOING TO GO WITH CARLOS CANINNO RIGHT OVER HERE. IF YOU HAVE AN ORANGE DOT, YOU ARE GOING TO GO WITH ROBERT HANSON. IF YOU HAVE A BLACK DOT, YOU ARE GOING TO GO WITH ME. WE ARE GOING TO MEET RIGHT OVER THERE, BY THOSE PORTRAITS. IF YOU HAVE A BLUE DOT, YOU ARE GOING TO GO WITH EDIE NASH, RIGHT BACK HERE. STUDENTS FROM DIFFERENT SKOOS AND DIFFERENT TEACHERS ARE GOING TO BE IN DIFFERENT GROUPS, SO BASED UPON YOUR COLOR DOT, LET'S BREAK OUT INTO SMALL GROUPS NOW.

GOOD LUCK!

YOU ARE SOMEWHERE. LET ME SEE WHERE YOU ARE. I DOUBT THEY WOULD HAVE YOU IN A GROUP WITH ME. THEY WANTED TO SPREAD THE JUDGES OUT. LET ME SEE. [A RECESS IS TAKEN] C1 C2 T1 T2 F [A RECESS IS TAKEN]

THESE ARE THE CHEAT SHEETS. I WILL PASS THIS OUT. THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ASK, SO TAKE ONE AND PASS THAT DOWN. THIS IS, REALLY, THE CHEAT SHEET. "FREE SPEECH IN SCHOOLS -- AND AND WE HAVE GOT SOME OF THE CASES, SOME OF THE LAW. I WILL REFER TO THAT A LITTLE BIT. THESE ARE PIECES OF PAPER. YOU WANT TO TAKE ONE OF THOSE TO MAKE NOTES. ARCH IS GOING TO VOLUNTEER TO BE OUR RECORDER RIGHT HERE. ART IN THE FRONT HERE. IF YOU WANT TO VOLUNTEER, WE NEED SOMEBODY TO VOLUNTEER TO BE THE RECORDER WHEN WE GO BACK, SOMEBODY THAT TELLS THE REST OF THE GROUP WHAT YOU CAME UP WITH. ART CAN HELP YOU, AND HE WILL FLIP OVER THE CHART. SO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT, AND LET'S SEE WHAT WE NEED TO DO. HOW ARE WE GOING TO REGULATE? GANG-RELATED, BODY PIERCING. WE ARE BRAINSTORMING HERE. LET'S START WHAT STUDENT, WHICH WAS SUGGESTED. RIGHT? DIDN'T YOU SAY IT OUGHT TO BE THE STUDENTS THAT DECIDE WHAT SHOULD BE PROHIBITED? WHAT DO YOU THINK?

LIKE THE ADVISORY COUNCIL THING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, THAT HAS WORKED PERFECT, BECAUSE TWO YEARS AGO YOU HAD TO TUCK YOUR SHIRTS IN. WE CAME TO SCHOOL AND EVERYBODY WAS STRICT THAT YOU HAD TO TUCK YOUR SHIRTS IN, AND THEY WERE REAL STRICT ABOUT IT, AND THEN THE STUDENTS MET AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE OPPOSED TO TUCKING THEIR SHIRTS IN, AND THEN THEY CAME TOGETHER BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE AGREED THAT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO TUCK OUR SHIRTS IN. THAT TURNED OUT WELL, BECAUSE WE REACHED A CONSENSUS ON IT.

WE HAVE GOT TO COUP WITH A POLICY OR WHATEVER GROUP WE ARE, THIS IS GOING TO APPLY ACROSS THE DISTRICT. IT IS GOING TO BE A DRESS CODE, AND SO THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS IT GOING TO REGULATE?

DOES IT HAVE TO REGULATE?

MAYBE NOT.

THAT IS A QUESTION THAT I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE HAS EVEN ADDRESSED. AM I CRAZY?

WE COULD BE AN UNUSUAL GROUP.

I AM JUST -- FROM WHERE I AM COMING FROM, WHEN I LOOK AT THIS, THE GENTLEMAN WHO WAS IN HERE EARLIER, THE BIG KID WHO CAME UP AND KMIPTED, REALLY -- MADE A GOOD POINT THAT THE KIDS, THEMSELVES, REGULATE EACH OTHER. REALLY THEY DO. IT IS US WHO PRETTY MUCH HAVE THE CALL, THAT I SEE, IN TEACHING, AND IF A KID CAN'T RESPECT ANOTHER KID OR AN ADULT, THEN YOU DEAL WITH IT, BUT I THINK WE HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS, BECAUSE WE REGULATE TOO MUCH.

OKAY.

AND A GANG INSIGNIA, BY THE WAY, IF ANYONE SAYS YOU HAVE TO CONTROL THAT, THAT CAN BE ANYTHING. A GANG INSIGNIA CAN BE A RED HAT. IT CAN BE A RED WRIST BAND, AND MY COMMUNITY HAS GONE WAY OVERBOARD, AND THEY ARE CONSERVATIVE, VERY CONSERVATIVE.

ARE YOU SAYING --

I WOULDN'T REGULATE ANYTHING.

WHAT ABOUT FOLLOWING UP ON THAT, TO HAVE, LIKE, A PREAMBLE TO THIS CODE, AND THAT IS THAT THE PREAMBLE MIGHT HAVE THESE BROAD PRINCIPLES OF HONOR AND RESPECT OF HAVING -- WOULD THAT, I WONDER WHAT THE STUDENTS THINK ABOUT THE VALUE OF THAT, THAT IS IF YOU COME OUT WITH A STATEMENT,, TO BEGIN WITH, WHICH IS MORE FUNDAMENTAL, YOU KNOW, ABOUT SELF RESPECT AND RESPECT FOR OTHERS AND HONOR AND THESE FUNDAMENTAL THINGS, SO THAT YOU ARE SENDING OUT A SIGNAL, AT THE OUTSET, THAT THIS IS, REALLY, THE VALUES THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AND WE ARE TRYING TO REFLECT, SORT OF, OUR COMMON VALUES THAT WE PROBABLY CAN AGREE WITH, ON THOSE THINGS, WOULD THAT BE OF ANY VALUE, TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT SET OUT RESPECT FIRST?

AND THEN -- SET OUT FIRST?

AND THEN THE CODE THAT YOU SET OUT WOULD HAVE TO GO WITH THE PURPOSE.

BE CONSISTENT AND GIVE YOU SOME GUIDANCE, SORT OF LIKE THE CONSTITUTION. "WE, THE PEOPLE, IN ORDER TO PROVIDE A MORE" WHATEVER, SET FORTH WHAT IT IS THAT YOU WANT, AND I THINK WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS YOU ARE NOT NECESSARILY REGULATING IT, BUT YOU ARE NOT SAYING THE CLOTHING, PER SE. WE ARE NOT GOING TO JUST START SAYING, WELL, YOU CAN WEAR CERTAIN THINGS AND YOU CAN'T WEAR CERTAIN THINGS, YOU HAVE GOT TO START FROM A PREMISE, PERHAPS, OF WHAT DO WE REALLY WANT TO ACCOMPLISH HERE? WE WANT TO ACCOMPLISH SOME KIND OF ENVIRONMENT THAT YOU ALL WANT TO FEEL COMFORTABLE IN. OF COURSE YOU ALL HAVE TO BE THERE, ANYWAY. IT IS NOT LIKE THE STUDENT SAYS I HAVE A CHOICE. I AM THERE. I CAN'T GET UP AND LEAVE, IF SOMETHING OFF ENDS ME AND I DON'T WANT TO BE HERE. WE ALL KNOW IT IS A PLACE THAT WE HAVE TO BE. STUDENTS ARE THERE AND TEACHERS ARE THERE, BUT WE ALL WANT SOMETHING, JUSTICE ANSTEAD, THAT WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR IS SOMETHING LIKE THE GOLDEN RULE. HONOR AND RESPECT AND MUTUAL RESPECT BACK AND FORTH, A GOOD LEARNING ENVIRONMENT. THAT IS PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT IS APPROPRIATE. WHAT ARE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THIS CODE, AND THEN WE CAN DECIDE TO REACH THAT FOUNDATION, MAYBE. DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A GOOD WAY TO DO IT? ALL RIGHT. LET'S COME UP WITH A BASIC PREAMBLE, THEN. THROW OUT SOME SUGGESTIONS.

WELL, I THINK THE FIRST THING THAT YOU SAID, RESPECT FOR OTHERS, THE RIGHTS AND VIEWS, WOULD BE THE FIRST THING THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO --

LET'S WRITE SOME OF THESE DOWN, AND WE WILL COME DOWN, IF, MAYBE, WE HAVE TO DISTILL IT SOME MORE, MAYBE WE WILL. RESPECT FOR OTHERS. HOWEVER WE HAVE TO WORD THAT, WE WILL. OKAY. WHAT ELSE?

WHAT ABOUT THE MISSION OF THE SCHOOL IS TO EDUCATE. SHOULDN'T THAT BE IN A PREAMBLE, THAT WE ALL RECOGNIZE THAT THE REASON THAT WE ARE HERE.

TO PROMOTE --

WE WANT TO PROMOTE THAT.

-- AN ENVIRONMENT OR EDUCATIONAL ENVIRONMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? WHAT DO YOU THINK? THEIR SELF THEIRSELVES.

IN MY PARTICULAR SCHOOL, IF I DON'T DRESS THE DRESS CODE, TWO PERIODS LATER, I AM GETTING EMAIL, SO IF HE DON'T ADDRESS THE PROBLEM AT THE BEGINNING OF SCHOOL, BECAUSE I AM PRETTY LACKS WITH THE DRESS CODE, REALLY, THEN I AM GOING TO GET IN TROUBLE BY THE ADMINISTRATION, SO THAT IS WHY I WAS A NATURAL PROPONENT FOR HAVING THE SCHOOL UNIFORMS, BUT THAT WOULD ALLEVIATE AND EVEN THE TEACHERS ARE REQUIRED, BECAUSE LIKE MISS SCOLY SAID, THE TEACHERS ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE DRESS CODES.

WHEN YOU SAY THE PROBLEM. FIRST OF ALL WE HAVE TO FIND OUT WHAT IT IS AND WHY IT IS A PROBLEM. SO LOOK AT IT FROM THIS -- WHERE DOES THAT FIT, IN TERMS OF IF YOU SAY I DON'T ADDRESS THE PROBLEM THE FIRST THING IN THE MORNING, WHAT PROBLEM ARE WE TALKING ABOUT, IN TERMS OF WE HAVE GOT THE MISSION OF OUR SCHOOL. WE WANT A PLACE WHERE KIDS CAN COME. THEY CAN LEARN. TEACHERS FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH TEACHING. WE WANT RESPECT FOR OTHERS. THERE IS PROBABLY SOMETHING ELSE THAT WE NEED TO PUT IN HERE, BUT I AM NOT SURE. YOU ARE JUMPING AHEAD AND SAYING I DON'T ADDRESS THAT, BUT FIRST WE HAVE GOT TO DECIDE, AS RICK SAYS, ARE WE EVEN GOING TO SAY ANYTHING SPECIFIC ABOUT CLOTHING, OR IS IT GOING TO BE GEARED TOWARDS RESPECT?

WHEN YOU ADDRESS A PROBLEM, HOW DO YOU FIGURE OUT IT IS A PROBLEM. THAT IS WHAT I WAS WONDERING. ARE YOU FOLLOWING THE SCHOOL, OR SAYING THAT IT OFF ENDS YOU? I WAS WONDERING IF WE ARE GOING TO GO BY THE DEAL OF RESPECT FOR OTHERS AND IF IT DOESN'T BOTH AREA STUDENT, IF A STUDENT SAYS IT DOESN'T OFFEND ME BUT THE TEACHERS SAYS IT BOTHERS ME, YOU SAY WHAT I AM -- YOU SEE WHAT I AM SAY SOMETHING.

HOW DO YOU COME TO THAT CONCLUSION WHAT IT IS.

I JUST HAD SOMETHING TO SAY. A LOT OF THE -- AS SOMEONE SAID EARLIER, A LOT OF THE TEACHERS, REALLY, BLOW IT OUT OF PROPORTION, LIKE, REALLY, YOU KNOW, ARE MORE FOCUSED ON WHETHER THE KIDS ARE DRESSING APPROPRIATELY, SO HOW LONG THEY HAVE TO TEACH. WE, REALLY, ONLY HAVE ABOUT 50 MINUTES PER CLASS, AND LAST YEAR I HAD A MATH TEACHER WHO SPENT TEN TO 15 MINUTES OUT OF THE CLASS, GOING AROUND WITH A RULER, TO CHECK GIRLS' DRESS, BECAUSE SOME OF US, WE WOULD -- AND THEN ANOTHER PROBLEM WAS, LIKE, WE WOULD WEAR -- SOME PEOPLE WOULD WEAR THE SPAGHETTI STRAPS WITH A SWEATER OVER IT, BUTTONED OR NOT, OR EVEN LIKE THIS. IF A SPAGHETTI STRAP SHIRT WAS UNDERNEATH IT, SHE WOULD WANT TO SEND ME TO THE PRINCIPAL, SAYING IT WAS STILL A VIOLATION OF THE DRESS CODE. I REALLY DON'T THINK, LIKE SOMEONE SAID EARLIER, IT IS MORE OF A POP TO THEM AND IT IS DISTRACTING THE TEACHERS, THAN IT, REALLY, IS FOR THE STUDENTS.

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THAT? A TEACHER HAS GOT TO WORK THERE, BUT WE ARE GETTING OFF TRACK NOW. WE WANTED -- IF THIS IS ALL WE ARE GOING ON TO PUT IN THE PREAMBLE, THAT IS ALL IT IS, BUT WHAT IS THE BASIS ON FOR HAVING A CODE AT ALL? WHY ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT SPAGHETTI STRAPS OR EVEN ANYTHING ELSE IN SCHOOL. WE HAVE GOT RESPECT FOR OTHERS AND PROMOTE A GOOD EDUCATION. ANYTHING ELSE IN THE PREAMBLE?

I WOULD JUST PUT AN OPENNESS OF EXPRESSION AND THOUGHT.

TOLERANCE, MAYBE?

EXACTLY. NO QUESTION. THERE HAS GOT TO BE A TOLERANCE. EVEN FOR DIXIE BABES, THERE HAS TO BE A TOLERANCE, BECAUSE IF YOU ARE GOING TO GO IN THE REAL WORLD, YOU MIGHT GET A NEIGHBOR WHO IS THE BIGGEST WHATEVER.

DOES THAT GO WITH RESPECT FOR OTHERS?

I THINK, THOUGH, IF YOU SPECIFIED, THOUGH, AND SAID AN OPENNESS OF IDEAS AND THOUGHT, A KID IS GOING TO KNOW, THE STUDENT IS GOING TO KNOW WHEN THEY GO IN THAT BUILDING, HEY, I AM GOING TO BE ABLE TO SAY THINGS. I AM GOING TO BE ABLE TO EXPRESS MYSELF, AND WE WILL HAVE A BETTER AND MORE CONDUCIVE ENVIRONMENT FOR LEARNING. THERE IS NO QUESTION.

WHAT ABOUT YOUR OPENNESS FOR EXPRESSION SHOWING DISRESPECT FOR OTHER PEOPLE?

CAN WE ADD A CAVEAT TO THAT?

RIGHT NOW WE ARE JUST THROWING OUT IDEAS. WE ARE NOT PERFECTING THAT, RIGHT?

IN THE PREAMBLE.

I KNOW, BUT --

THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING. WOULDN'T YOU ENCOMPASS THAT, IF YOU HAVE RESPECT FOR OTHERS, IT MEANS YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE RESPECT FOR WHATEVER THEIR OPINION IS THAT IS EXPRESSED. RIGHT?

OKAY. I FOLLOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. IT IS LIKE AN OXYMORON, RESPECT FOR OTHERS AND OPEN EXPRESSION CAN HAPPEN, TOO.

RIGHT. IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU HAVE RESPECT FOR OTHERS, THAT, TO ME, IMPLIES THAT YOU WILL HAVE A FAIRLY TOLERANT --

WHAT IF YOU SAY RESPECT FOR OTHERS TO TOLERATE INDIVIDUALIALITY.

THAT IS GOOD. THAT IS A GOOD WAY TO PUT IT.

SORT OF A DASH.

THAT IS WHY WE HAVE A GROUP. IT IS ALWAYS GOOD.

I THINK YOU NEED TO PUT UP THERE THAT, IF IT IS AN OBVIOUS DISRUPTION TO THE CLASSROOM, THE WAY IT IS NOW, ANY KIND OF DISRUPTION, PERIOD. IF IT IS JUST TEACHER THAT IS BEING DISRUPTIVE. BUT IF IT DISRUPTS THE WHOLE CLASSROOM.

IF IT DISRUPTS THE WHOLE THING, YOU ARE NOT PROMOTING, THAT WOULD COME UNDER THAT. THAT WOULD BE ON ONE THING TO CONSIDER.

JUST BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING THEY MAY NOT PROMOTE. OKAY. GOT YOU.

YES. IF YOU HAVE A DISRUPTIVE ENVIRONMENT, IT IS NOT PROMOTING A GOOD EDUCATIONAL ENVIRONMENT. THAT IS WHY WE ARE GOING TO REGULATE SOMETHING, BECAUSE IT DOES NOT PROMOTE THAT.

I THINK RESPECT AND TOLERANCE FOR OTHERS, BUT IF YOU HAVE TOLERANCE FOR OTHERS, NOT TO BE WEARING SWASTIKAS AND BY WEARING A SYMBOL, IT SHOWS A LACK OF RESPECT AND A LACK OF TOLERANCE.

THAT IS WHERE WE GET INTO REAL DIFFICULTY, WITH THE ACTUAL SPECIFICITY OF THE CODES, BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE RESPECT FOR OTHERS AND TOLERATING INDIVIDUALIALITY, AND SAY WAIT A SECOND. YOU NEED TO TOLERATE MY RIGHT TO WEAR THIS LITTLE INSIGNIA, AND YOU ARE GOING TO SAY, WAIT A MINUTE. YOU ARE NOT RESPECTING MY PROC LIVE ITS BY WEARING. THAT I THINK WE CAN PUT/OTHERS -- YOU CAN PUT SLARB OTHERS -- SLASH OTHERS, BUT WHAT DO YOU PUT IN THERE? PERCENT FOR OTHERS?

IF IT GOES WITH THEIR RELIGIOUS VALUES.

YOU MENTIONED COMMITMENT TO DUE PROCESS AND EQUAL PROTECTION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR IS THAT INCLUDED IN RESPECT FOR OTHERS? YEAH. YOU CAN HAVE THOSE BIG, BROAD THINGS. WHAT DO YOU THINK?

I WAS THINKING SAFETY. SOME OF THE THINGS THAT STUDENTS ARE WEARING MIGHT JEOPARDIZE THEIR SAFETY. THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO LEARN IN A SAFE ENVIRONMENT.

SHOULD WE PUT DOWN "SAFE"? OKAY. SO WE ARE CONCERNED, HERE, IN THE PREAMBLE THINGS, IS A SAFE ENVIRONMENT. WE WANT AN ENVIRONMENT -- IT IS PROBABLY INCLUDED UNDER A GOOD EDUCATIONAL ENVIRONMENT. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE SAFE. BUT I THINK IT IS STRONG ENOUGH, PROBABLY, IT OUGHT TO BE A SEPARATE LITTLE FACTOR. SAFE. OKAY. IS THAT A GOOD PREAMBLE? WE NEED SOMETHING ELSE. READY TO GO WITH THAT? IF WE CAN WORD IT SOME WAY, HOW ARE WE GOING TO WORD IT? THIS STUDENT CODE, THIS STUDENT -- WHAT DO YOU CALL THE CODE?

THE MISSION OF OUR SCHOOL SHOULD BE --

OR THIS IS A PREAMBLE TO THE CODE. IS IT A DRESS CODE OR JUST A GENERAL CODE?

DRESS CODE. OKAY. IN ORDER TO PROMOTE RESPECT FOR OTHERS, A GOOD EDUCATIONAL AND SAFE ENVIRONMENT, AND A TOLERANCE OF INDIVIDUALIALITY IN OTHERS, WE HERE BY -- THE PURPOSE OF THE DRESS CODE OUGHT TO BE TO HELP IMPLEMENT THE MISSION OF THE SCHOOL. AND THE SCHOOL COMMUNITY.

RIGHT.

BEING THE MISSION OF THE SCHOOL TO -- WELL, SORT OF LIKE THE CONSTITUTION. THE U.S. CONSTITUTION. OR TO PROMOTE A GOOD EDUCATIONAL AND SAFE ENVIRONMENT AND RESPECT FOR OTHERS AND TOLERANCE. RESPECT AND TOLERANCE FOR OTHERS. YOU COULD COMBINE THOSE. THAT IS A PRETTY SHORT PREAMBLE. ART WILL REWORD IT, IN HIS -- YEAH. JUST THINK ABOUT. THAT WE WILL REWORD IT, WHEN WE HAVE A CHANCE. WE WILL GET TO THE MEAT OF IT FOR A SECOND. IN ORDER TO DO THAT, WE ARE GOING TO COME UP WITH A DRESS CODE. HAVE YOU GOT THAT? THAT WILL GIVE US SOME GUIDANCE. WE ARE BACK TO WHAT RICH SAYS. SHOULD WE REGULATE ANY KIND OF CLOTHING AT ALL?

DO WE HAVE TO HAVE A DRESS CODE? BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE IS.

WELL, WE COULD POINT THAT OUT. WHO IS OUR REPORTER? JOHN IS THE REPORTER. YOU COULD GO BACK AND SAY WE HAD A GOOD DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER WE SHOULD, IN FACT, HAVE ANY KIND OF DRESS CODE BUT DECIDED THAT, SINCE THE EXERCISE THAT WE SHOULD DO A DRESS CODE, WE ARE GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY, BUT SERIOUS CONSIDERATION OF THAT, AND WHAT WOULD BE THE ARGUMENT? MAKE THE ARGUMENT FOR LET'S DON'T HAVE A DRESS CODE AT ALL.

THE ARGUMENT IS, FIRST OF ALL, THE IMPLEMENTATION OF IT. YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO GET ALL THE TEACHERS TO BE IN LINEMENT. IT WON'T HAPPEN. THERE IS NOT A SCHOOL THAT D I THINK THE SAFETY ISSUE IS KIND OF RIDICULOUS. I KNOW I AM IN THE MINORITY. NUMBER THREE, WE SPEND SO MUCH TIME REGULATING AND RESTRICTING, THAT YOU ASK ANY KID, DO YOU HAVE RIGHTS AT THE SCHOOL? THEY WILL TELL YOU NO. THAT IS, ALREADY, CREATING AN ADVERSE SITUATION. I THINK IT REALLY IS. SO I THINK IF WE ELIMINATE A LOT OF THAT, AND I WILL SAY THIS, TOO. I BRING THIS UP IN MY LAW CLASSES. HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? A DEFINITE VIOLATION OF DRESS CODE. BUT DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY TELL ME? A LOT OF KIDS GO TO THE BEACH AND SAY NO BIG DEAL, BUT MY POINT IS WE SPEND SO MUCH TIME TRYING TO RESTRICT WHAT YOUNG PEOPLE DO, LET'S TREAT THEM AS WE WANT THEM TO BE. LET'S TREAT THEM AS ADULTS. SAME THING WITH ME. A DRESS CORRODE FOR A TEACHER? -- A DRESS CODE FOR A TEACHER? THERE IS NO WAY. I WOULD LEAVE MY PROFESSION. I CAN GET MY POINT ACROSS IN JEANS AND SHORTS. I CAN GET RESPECT FROM STUDENTS, TOO, IN THAT. THAT IS ALL.

KIDS CHANGE CLASSES AND I WATCH WHERE THEY ARE GOING. DOWN THE GIRL WENT, BY THE STAIRS. YOU ARE THINKING 3.5 IS THE CODE NOT WEAR BACKLESS SHOES, AND THE QUESTION IS WHY WOULD SOMEONE WEAR BACKLESS SHOES? THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT ENDED UP IN COURT. THE FIRST THREE TEACHERS, HAD THAT IN COMMON WITH HER.

YOU WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT SOME OTHER FACTORS. A KID COULD BE PUSHED DOWN -- OF COURSE. WE HAVE HAD KIDS FALL DOWN STEPS BECAUSE THE STUDENT WAS MOVING TOO FAST. DO WE REGULATE HOW FAST THEY MOVE IN THE HALL? DO WE HAVE TO GO SINGLE FILE? EVEN STILL BUT THEY WILL. WE CAN'T NITPICK IT. I WOULD ASK THE QUESTION HOW MANY KIDS, OVER THE PAST TEN YEARS, HAVE GOTTEN INJURED WITH BACKLESS SHOES, AND I THINK YOU COULD PROBABLY COUNT ON ONE HAND.

LET ME HEAR SOME OF THE STUDENTS. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS IDEA OF WHY SHOULD WE HAVE ANY KIND OF REGULATION OF WHAT STUDENTS WEAR? DO YOU SEE ANY REASON WHY WE SHOULD? DO YOU ALL AGREE WITH THAT? IF WE WERE NOT HAVING THIS EXERCISE TODAY AND WE WERE GOING TO COME UP WITH AND WE WERE VOTING, WOULD YOU SAY I AGREE? GETS DON'T HAVE A DRESS CODE. WHY NOT?

I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT, BECAUSE SOMETIMES STUDENTS TAKE IT TOO FAR, AND THAT IS WHERE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. YOU HAVE TO KIND OF PUNISH EVERYBODY, TO PUNISH THE BAD PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO SCHOOL, BECAUSE IF YOU SAID THERE WAS NO DRESS CODE, YOU WOULD HAVE SOME OF THE STUDENTS DRESS FINE, JUST LIKE THEY WOULD EVERY OTHER DAY, BUT THEN THERE WOULD BE OTHER KIDS WHO TAKE IT TO THE EXTREME AND COME HALF DRESSED AND EVERYTHING, SO THAT IS WHY WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF REGULATION.

HE GAVE THE EXAMPLE OF BATHING SUITS. ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT? WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH WEARING A BATHING SUIT? YOU WEAR IT AT THE BEACH.

WELL, THE FIRST TIME THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN, YEAH, IT WOULD AND DISTRACTION, BUT LIKE YOU SAID, AFTER A FEW WEEKS, IT WOULD BECOME, LIKE, EVERYTHING YOU GET USED TO. IT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU LIVE, TOO.

THAT WOULD BE ALL RIGHT?

I MEAN YOU ARE SAYING WE HAVE TO REGULATE CLOTHES, FASHION. YES, MA'AM.

ACTUALLY I DO AGREE WITH HIM ON THE FACT. I AM A HYPOCRITE. I WEAR BACKLESS SHOES ALL THE TIME. I AM RIGHT NOW.

GET OUT! [LAUGHTER]

AND THE THING IS, THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER THINGS THAT COULD HAPPEN, TO MAKE SOMEBODY FALL DOWN THE STEPS, A FLIGHT OF STAIRS. I MEAN, IF SOMEBODY DID PUSH AND SHOVE AND IF PEOPLE WERE IN A HURRY LIKE THAT, IT IS JUST, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME BETWEEN CLASSES AND THEY FEEL THAT THEY HAVE TO BE RUSHED, TO GET DOWN THERE. MAYBE THE STAIRWELLS ARE TOO TIGHT AND SMALL OR MAYBE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH THAT PEOPLE --

IS THERE ANYTHING, THOUGH, THAT YOU REGULATE?

WHAT?

YOU ARE DISAGREEING ABOUT SHOES. THE QUESTION IS SHOULD WE HAVE ANY KIND OF REGULATION FOR ANY KIND OF CLOTHING, FOR ANY PURPOSE? ANOTHER CLOTHING THING, I THINK THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO WEAR -- I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT SPAGHETTI STRAPS ARE TOO BAD, IF THEY ARE GOOD ENOUGH. I MEAN, IF THEY ARE, LIKE, NOW, MY BIGGEST PROBLEM IS SOMEBODY, IF THEY CAME TO SCHOOL IN A STRAPLESS SHIRT.

WHY REGULATE THAT AT ALL?

WHY REGULATE IT?

YEAH. SPAGHETTI. WHETHER YOU LIKE THEM OR NOT, WHY REGULATE IT AT ALL?

YOU SEE, I DON'T THINK THAT THEY -- THE ONLY DRESS CODE THAT SHOULD BE REGULATED, PRETTY MUCH, LIKE THE GUY THAT CAME TO SCHOOL, DRESSED AS GIRL. THAT, REALLY, IS DISTRACTING. I MEAN I WOULD BE DISTRACTED PIE THAT, I MEAN, ONLY IN THE SENSE THAT --

IN THE '60s, WHEN I WAS GOING TO SCHOOL, IT WAS THE FIRST TIME WE WERE INTEGRATED, IN THE '60s, IN BROWN VERSUS BOARD OF EDUCATION, 1954, SO IN THE STATE OR COUNTY, '67, '68 WAS THE FIRST TIME WE HAD ANY AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDENTS. THAT WAS A DISTRACTION. YOU TALK ABOUT A DISTRACTION, AND SO ARE WE GOING TO, JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS A DISTRACTION IN THE SCHOOL, ARE WE GOING TO SAY YOU CAN'T DO IT? DRAW THE LINE. I AM JUST BEING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE, GOING ALONG WITH RICK, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE EVERYBODY, SOME OF THE STUDENTS ARE SAYING WE DO NEED TO REGULATE SOMETHING. WE MAY DISAGREE ON WHERE TO DRAW THAT LINE, BUT WE ARE GOING TO GO SOMEWHERE. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT FOR A SECOND, BECAUSE WE ALMOST GO ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT OF COURSE THERE HAS TO BE A DRESS CODE. YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF DRESS CODE.

PART OF THE REASON IS YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LOT OF REASONS WHY SCHOOLS HAVE THESE CODES. WE HAVE NO NOT OVERLOOK THE FACT THAT, TO AVOID ARBITRARY ARBITRARYNESS, THAT IS THAT IF COURTS HAVE SAID, TOO, THAT, WELL IF SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO DISCIPLINE A STUDENT, YOU HAVE TO PUT THE STUDENT ON NOTICE OF JUST EXACTLY WHAT THE STANDARDS ARE, SO THAT THEY, THEN, HAVE A FAIR OPPORTUNITY, THEN, TO COMPLY WITH THAT, SO ONE OF THE DANGERS, IF YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING IN PLACE, IS THAT A PRINCIPAL COULD BE LIKE THE PRINCIPAL WE SAW IN THE VIDEO, HERE, OR THE TEACHER, THEN, ON A VERY SUBJECTIVE BASIS, THEN, CAN PICK OUT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT IS A STUDENT THAT THEY HAVE HAD A RUN-IN WITH, AND NOW THEY ARE JUST GOING TO FIND EVERYTHING WRONG WITH THAT STUDENT ON A REGULAR BASIS, KIND OF THING. THERE IS GOING TO BE THIS ARBITRARINESS TO THIS THE SITUATION, YOU KNOW, SO PART OF THE REASON, AND THIS GOES BACK TO OUR DUE PROCESS, TOO, IS THAT YOU PUT PEOPLE ON NOTICE OF WHAT IS EXPECTED OF THEM. AND THE MORE OBJECT I HAVE YOU ARE, IN TERMS OF THE WAY THAT YOU HANDLE THAT, THE MORE LIKELY THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO WORK AND BE UPHELD, AND THE LESS OBJECT I HAVE YOU ARE, THEN THE MORE ARBITRARY AND THE MORE DISCRETION OBVIOUSLY, PRINCIPALS AND TEACHERS AND OTHERS ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO JUST WHAT, YOU KNOW, THEIR BIASES AND PREJUDICE ARE GOING TO COME OUT, SO THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL REASON FOR HAVING THIS, AND THIS IS TO PUT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ON NOTICE OF WHAT IS EXPECTED IN OUR SCHOOL COMMUNITY. AND --

IF YOU JUST HAD THAT, IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO GIVE A LOT OF DISCRETION BUT YOU PROMPTED ME TO THINK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE THAT MIGHT OUGHT TO BE ON THERE, PROMOTING A GOOD EDUCATIONAL ENVIRONMENT, PART OF WHAT WE ARE DOING, AND I KNOW THE STUDENTS SAY WE DON'T NEED ANY OF THIS, BUT PART OF WHAT THE SCHOOLS ARE DOING IS SOCIALIZE CHILDREN TO WHAT IS OUT IN THE GREATER COMMUNITY. IT IS NOT WHAT IS IN A BOOK OR HISTORY OR GEOGRAPHY, IT IS DEMOCRACY AND WHEN THEY GET OUT, PART OF THAT IS LEARNING HOW TO DRESS AND ACT APPROPRIATELY. I CAN WE GET -- I THINK WE GET AWAY FROM THAT, AND WHEN YOU THINK OF A STUDENT PREPARING TO WORK IN SOCIETY, IF YOU COME TO WORK IN A BATHING SUIT, YOU ARE GOING TO GET FIRED. THERE ARE EXPECTATIONS, WHETHER THEY ARE WRITTEN OR NOT, IN OUR CULTURE ABOUT HOW PEOPLE ACT AND HOW YOU DRESS, AND HOW YOU DRESS, SOMETIMES, IS A FORM OF COMMUNICATION AS WELL, SO YOU MENTION SOMEBODY, IF A STUD EVENT CAME IN IN A BIC I KNOW -- IF A STUDENT CAME IN IN A BIKINI, AND YOU SAY IT IS A DISTRACTION, YES, YOU CAN GET USED TO ANYTHING. YOU CAN COME IN NUDE, AND AFTER A WHILE YOU DON'T THINK ANYTHING OF IT. THAT IS A GOOD IDEA, RIGHT? BUT THE QUESTION IS THINGS THANK OVER -- CHANGE OVER HISTORY. YOU GO BACK IN THE '50s AND LOOK AT THE VIDEOS AND THE DRESS CODES AND THE SKIRTS ARE DOWN TO HERE HERE AND MEN WEARING -- I REMEMBER FSU, WHEN I FIRST CAME TO SCHOOL AT FSU AND I WENT TO THE FOOTBALL GAME, EVERYBODY DRESSED UP. EVERYBODY WORRY A SPORT COAT. YOU DON'T SEE ANY SPORT COATS AT FOOTBALL GAMES ANYMORE, SO DRESS, WHAT IS EXPECTED OUT IN THE COMMUNITY CHANGES. YOU GO BACK IN VICTORIAN TIMES AND YOU DON'T THINK IT IS THE SAME, BUT I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP THAT IN MIND, IN TERMS OF WHY WE MIGHT WANT TO SHOW BY EXAMPLE OR BY SOME KIND OF CODE, AND JUST LIKE JUSTICE ANSTEAD, IF YOU DON'T HAVE SOME SPECIFICITY, PEOPLE WON'T BE PROTECTED FROM ARBITRARINESS, SO IT LOOKS LIKE THAT IS A GOOD IDEA, RICK, THE IDEA OF BEING -- AND ACTUALLY IT IS KIND OF INSIDE DENIAL. IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE PREAMBLES, WE ARE SAYING WE ARE PROMOTING A GOOD LEARNING ENVIRONMENT, WE ARE PREPARING STUDENTS, WE ARE TEACHING RESPECT FOR OTHERS AND TOLERANCE, AND IN THAT CONTEXT, TO THE EXTENT THAT IS AFFECTED BY WHAT YOU WEAR, HOW YOU DRESS OR WHATEVER, MAYBE YOU WE OUGHT TO LOOK AT -- MAYBE WE OUGHT TO LOOK AT THAT, SO TO SOME EXTENT WE DON'T HAVE A DRESS CODE, PER SE, BUT WE DO ADDRESS THE WAY YOU WEAR THE DRESS. SIMM ANTICS, PERHAPS. SO IF WE GET THERE AND SAY WE HAVE GOT TO REGULATE SOMETHING, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO REGULATE? WE HAVE GOT TO MOVE. WE HAVE GOT 20 MINUTES TO GET THROUGH THE REST OF IT. TELL ME. CLOTHING? WE HAVE GOT CARTE BLANCHE OR ARE WE GOING TO RESTRICT IT? WHAT DO YOU THINK?

NO UNDERWEAR SHOWING. I ALWAYS TELL MY STUDENTS, HOW WOULD I LOOK, DRESSED LIKE THAT? THAT PRETTY MUCH MAKES THEM STOP WEARING IT.

LET'S TO SAY EVERYTHING OUT HERE, THEN WE WILL COME BACK AND KIND OF VOTE ON THEM AND SEE WHICH ONES WE KEEP. OKAY. NO CLOTHING WHERE YOUR UNDERWEAR IS SHOWING. OKAY.

DOES THAT INCLUDE BRAS?

ANY KIND OF UNDERGARMENT OF ANY KIND. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WHAT ELSE? THROW ANYTHING OUT THAT YOU THINK OUGHT TO BE IN THERE. SKIRTS? WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH SKIRTS? HOW MUCH?

THE SPLIT. ABOVE THE KNEE. SOME SHOW THEIR ENTIRE BUTT. WHAT HAPPENS IS SOME OF THE STUDENTS KIND OF RUIN IT FOR THE REST.

THAT IS WHAT YOU WERE SAYING.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH HIM. BECAUSE AT MY SCHOOL, FOR EXAMPLE, WE ALLOW SHORTS, BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS SOME OF THE GIRLS OR SOME OF THE BOYS, ACTUALLY THE GIRLS, WEAR IT UP REALLY HIGH, WHICH IS VERY INAPPROPRIATE, AND WHAT DID THEY DO LAST YEAR? NO SHORTS.

RIGHT.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE LIVE IN SOUTH FLORIDA, AND MIAMI, WHERE IT IS REALLY, REALLY HOT, SO, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING, YOU ARE SAYING WEATHER, WE NEED SHORTS OVER THERE.

THE LOWEST COMMON deNOMINATOR IS THE PROBLEM: SKIRTS? HOW SHORT?

SOME WEAR THEM SHORT TO MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE THEY HAVE LONG LEGS.

LIKE YOU PUT YOUR HANDS DOWN BY YOUR SIDE.

FINGERTIPS.

IF I HAD A DRESS ON?

NO. NO. NO. THAT IS PRETTY HIGH. WHAT IF YOU HAVE EXTREMELY SHORT ARMS.

THEN YOU HAVE GOT A SHORT SKIRT.

IF YOU HAVE A GIRL IN A PAIR OF SHORTS AND SHE DOWN TO HERE.

WHAT ABOUT THE PRINCIPLE OF DISTRACTION OR DISRUPTION THAT OUGHT TO AND PART OF THIS? THAT IS BEFORE WE GO TO THESE VERY SPECIFIC THINGS HERE, SHOULDN'T WE HAVE SOME GENERAL PRINCIPLE THAT WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT, AND THAT IS ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU ALL HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, THAT IS IF SOMETHING IS SO DISTRACTING, OR SO DISRUPTIVE, YOU KNOW, AND I WONDER IF THAT IS NOT THE KIND OF THING THAT OUGHT TO BE, IF WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT CLOTHING, THAT IT IS THE APPEARANCE OF, YOU KNOW, THAT IT IS GOING TO BE DISRUPTIVE OR DISTRACTING, YOU KNOW, FROM WHAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING.

YOU COULD HAVE THAT AS KIND OF AFTER CATCH-ALL.

MAYBE WE COULD USE THAT PRINCIPLE, THEN, WHEN WE START TALKING ABOUT SPEECH AND CONDUCT, YOU KNOW, OTHER THINGS, TOO. DOES THAT WORK AT ALL, WITH YOU GUYS DEDOES THAT MAKE SENSE AT ALL WITH DISRUPTION?

I WILL BE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, AND I WILL SAY WHO IS GOING TO DECIDE WHETHER IT IS DISRUPTIVE OR NOT. A LOT OF THE STUDENTS WILL SAY IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME AT ALL, AND THEN YOU HAVE GOT ADMINISTRATORS THAT SAY IT IS DISRUPTIVE. THAT IS TOO SHORT. YOU HAVE GOT TO GO BACK, WHAT YOU SAID BEFORE, GIVE REASONABLE, ADEQUATE NOTICE OF WHAT IS GOING TO BE APPROPRIATE THAT I CAN WEAR. I LIKE THAT IDEA. GIVE ME -- WHETHER I AGREE WITH IT OR NOT, GIVE ME SOME MEASUREMENT THAT I CAN DO. YOU SAY TO MY FINGERTIPS AND START WITH THAT? WE CAN THROW OFF DIFFERENT THINGS AND SAY ONE INCH OR TWO INCH OR FINGERTIPS. OKAY. TWO INCHES, THREE INCHES. OKAY. WELL, THE STUDENTS, WHAT DO YOU SAY, STUDENTS?

COME ON, LADIES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS APPROPRIATE?

FINGERTIPS. FINGERTIPS!

FINGERTIPS. OKAY. SHORTS, NO HIGHER THAN TO THE BOTTOM OF YOUR FILMINGER TIPS. -- OF YOUR TINKER TIPS. -- OF YOUR FINGERTIPS. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO SAY? THAT IT IS TOO HOT?

I DON'T THINK IS ANYWHERE NEAR THE DRESS CODE.

IF YOU KNOW THEY ARE SHORT ENOUGH, YOU DON'T WEAR THEM.

WOULD THAT BE OKAY? YOU DON'T MIND THAT REGULATION. SHORTS. SHORTS ARE OKAY. IS THAT OKAY? YOU CAN WEAR SHORTS, BUT THEY HAVE THE SAME REQUIREMENT AS SKIRTS. THEY CAN'T BE TOO SHORT.

ADOPTED -- ADAPTED FOR WHOM? SOME OF THE FEMALES? I AM SAYING THAT, AS LONG -- SOMETIMES YOU HAVE SHORTS THAT GO ALL THE WAY DOWN -- IS THAT DISTRACTING TO --

NO.

THAT IS NOT DISTRACTING.

SO FAR WE ARE BEING -- JUSTICE ANSTEAD --

IF YOU WEAR SHORTS THAT COME DOWN ALMOST TO YOUR ANKLES.

RIGHT. RIGHT NOW WE HAVE GOT SHORTS EXTENDED TO ARM'S LENGTH OR FINGERTIPS. OKAY. YEAH. IN OTHER WORDS YOU DON'T DO LIKE THIS. SEE, THEY COME TO MY FINGERTIPS. NO PROBLEM. OKAY. BUT YOU WANT TO ADDRESS AND REGULATE THE LENGTH, TOO? ANYBODY GOT A PROBLEM WITH HOW LONG MY SHORTS ARE? OKAY. HOW LONG THEY ARE. OKAY. CAN'T BE TOO SHORT. AND THE REASON THAT -- HOW ABOUT THE WAY THEY FIT. WHAT IF THEY ARE REAL TIGHT. ANY PROBLEM WITH REAL TIGHT SHORTS? I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.

THEY WILL WEED THEMSELVES OUT WITH THAT. BELIEVE ME.

ANYTHING ELSE?

WE WERE TALKING AND THINKING ABOUT WE ARE GOING IN A CIRCLE, BECAUSE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE NOW, AND PEOPLE ARE, STILL, COMPLAINING A LOT IN SCHOOLS, SO IT LOOKS -- I CAN KIND OF SEE HOW IT WOULD LOOK GOOD TO PEOPLE WHO WERE MAKING IT UP, BUT WHEN YOU ARE ACTUALLY ENFORCE IT, THEN YOU RUN INTO THE PROBLEMS THAT I CAN'T THINK OF RIGHT NOW, BUT IT IS SOME PROBLEM WITH DOING IT THAT WAY THAT JUST DOESN'T WORK. IT IS DISTRACTING.

OKAY. RICK, YOU ARE AHEAD NOW. WE DON'T HAVE ANY REGULATIONS.

I THOUGHT WE WOULD CLEAR UP SO MANY PROBLEMS, IF WE DIDN'T. HOW ABOUT IF WE DO THIS? THE JUDGE MENTIONED ABOUT A PURPOSE OR SORT OF LIKE WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO ACHIEVE WITH IT. OKAY. WHAT IF WE PUT, ON THERE, I JUST DREW A BLANK, TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU WANTED. IT WOULDN'T WORK RIGHT NOW.

WHILE YOU ARE THINKING, HOW ABOUT HATS? ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE HATS OR NO HATS?

BE ABLE TO WEAR HATS OUTSIDE THE SCHOOL, BUT WHEN YOU COME IN --

HATS ARE ALLOWED ON-CAMPUS BUT NOT IN CLASSROOMS. NO. I MEAN, WE ARE MAKING THIS UP.

WE WERE TOLD, AT OUR SCHOOL, THAT THEY GOT RID OF HATS IN OUR SCHOOL, BUT THE DEAL WAS THEY SAID A HAT WAS A PROBLEM OUTSIDE. THEY SAID THE FACT OF PLAYING AROUND AND TAKING OTHER PEOPLE'S HAT, THAT THAT WAS A REAL PROBLEM. I DON'T KNOW IF OTHER SCHOOLS HAVE THAT PROBLEM, BUT THEY WOULD SAY PEOPLE WOULD TAKE OTHER PEOPLE'S HATS, AND THAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM.

THAT IS KIND OF SILLY. YOU CAN'T WEAR A HAT, BECAUSE SOMEBODY MISTAKE IT FROM YOU AND CAUSE A PROBLEM.

YOU CAN'T WEAR A BOOK BAG.

I AM SORRY. I APOLOGIZE. WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY IS I THINK, WHEN WE ARE LOOKING AT WHAT THE PURPOSE IS, IN TERMS OF SUBSTANTIAL DISRUPTION, IT SHOULD BE PLACED ON THE STUDENTS. I WOULD TAKE TOUT OF THE TEACHERS' HANDS AND OUT OF THE PRINCIPALS' HANDS AND PUT IT ON THE STUDENT BODY. THERE IS NOTHING LIKE PIER PRESSURE, NOTHING LIKE IT AT ALL.

WOULD YOU HAVE THE STUDENTS REDUCE THAT TO WRITING, SO THAT THE PEOPLE KNEW?

THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME UP WITH THEIR POLICIES.

THAT IS WHAT WE ARE DOING.

BUT I AM JUST SAYING, GOING BACK TO WHAT THE PURPOSE, I THINK WHEN WE LOOK AT A SUBSTANTIAL DISRUPTION, IT SHOULDN'T COME FROM US. IT SHOULDN'T COME FROM US. IT SHOULD COME FROM THEM. THEY SHOULD HAVE, I GUESS, TO INITIATE THAT.

RIGHT NOW LIKE I SAID, IT MAY OR MAY NOT BE A DISRUPTION. IF IT IS, IF YOU HAVE THIS-, BUT WHAT ABOUT MY SUGGESTION ABOUT YOU ARE, REALLY, TRYING TO TEACH THEM CERTAIN THINGS ARE APPROPRIATE. CERTAIN THINGS ARE APPROPRIATE AND SOME AREN'T.

I KNOW. IS HE A GANG MEMBER. OKAY. IF YOU HAVE GOT JEWISH KIDS IN CLASS, MOST KIDS, THEY ARE REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT? DO YOU WANT THAT HAT TO BE WORN IN YOUR CLASSROOM?

YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO WEAR THAT IN THE STREET. YOU MAY HAVE A NEIGHBOR --

BUT YOU DON'T ALWAYS ALLOW THE SAME THINGS IN THE CLASSROOM. WOULD YOU WEAR THAT HAT THAT SAID J.C. PENNEY'S ON YOUR JOB, AN AS PART-TIME STUDENT WORKER?

IT DEPENDS ON IF THEY REGULATED IT AT WORK.

ANSWER THE QUESTION, COUNSELOR.

I COULD WEAR IT, SURE, AND IF THEY FIRE ME, THAT IS A PRIVATE INDUSTRY.

WOULD YOUR EMPLOYER ALLOW YOU TO KEEP WORKING THERE? PROBABLY NOT.

YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, TOO, THAT IT IS THE ADMINISTRATION, AND THE TEACHERS, AS MUCH AS WE MIGHT NOT, THAT HAVE THIS RESPONSIBILITY, AND SO THEY ARE IN CHARGE, AND, OF COURSE, WE GIVE THEM THAT RESPONSIBILITY AND SAY THAT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, AND SO WE HAVE GOT TO BE VERY CAREFUL, YOU KNOW, THAT WE DON'T END UP IN A SITUATION, MOST OF US, IN TERMS OF HAVING INDIVIDUAL CHOICES ABOUT HOW WE DRESS AND WHATEVER ARE GOING TO BE VERY LIBERAL. OKAY. THAT IS ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS, WE ARE GOING TO SAY WAIT A MINUTE. YOU KNOW. I DON'T WANT TO YOU RESTRICT ME AT ALL. HOWEVER I FEEL THAT DAY OR WHETHER I DID MY LAUNDRY IS GOING TO DETERMINE WHAT I HAVE AVAILABLE AND THAT -- WAY WEAR AND EVERYTHING, BUT THE REALITY IS THAT, IN THE CLASSROOM, JUST AS WE HAVE AN ILLUSTRATION HERE, THAT WE MAY HAVE SOME WRITING ON THE BACK OF A SHIRT, AND THEN SOMEBODY HAS TO SIT BEHIND THAT PERSON ALL DAY, AND THAT PERSON, YOU KNOW, MAY BE AFFECTED BY THAT, AND THE TEACHER KNOWS THAT PERSON IS AFFECTED BY THAT, AND SO THESE THINGS, THE REALITY IS THAT THINGS DO HAPPEN ON THE GROUND, AND THAT THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE TEACHERS DO HAVE THESE THINGS, AND THEY HAVE GOT TO HAVE AWAY TO DEAL WITH THEM, KIND OF THING, SO IT IS VERY -- WE CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION HERE, AND IT IS EASY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE ALL TOLERATE EACH OTHER AND WITH THE GROUP HERE AND EVERYTHING, BUT THE REALITY IN A CLASSROOM IS THAT IF YOU GO TO SCHOOL AND YOU HAVE JUST, WELL, FOR INSTANCE, I TRAVEL, AND I VISITED A LOT OF CONCENTRATION CAMPS, AND MY CHILDREN HAVE, TOO, AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE DAY THAT MY CHILDREN COME BACK FROM VACATION AND THEY HAVE BEEN AT DAKOW AND THEY WENT INTO THE CLASSROOM AND SAW SOMEBODY WEARING A NAZI SYMBOL, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY DISRUPTIVE TO THEM, BECAUSE THEY HAVE JUST BEEN SENSITIZEED, WITH REFERENCE TO WHAT, PROBABLY THE WORST THING, SO THESE ARE REAL THINGS. SO I THINK THAT, IDEALLY, IF WE HAD A SCHOOL COMMUNITY WHERE EVERYBODY RESPECTED ONE ANOTHER, THAT YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, THAT IT WOULD BE SUCH A HEALTHY COMMUNITY, IT WOULD ALL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF, BECAUSE THAT PERSON WOULDN'T WEAR THE NAZI CAP,, TO BEGIN WITH, AND THEN, PERHAPS, THE PERSON THAT WAS OFFENDED BY THAT WOULD, ALSO, SAY THAT I KNOW THAT JOE DIDN'T MEAN ANYTHING BY ALL OF THAT. HE WAS JUST TRYING TO SHOW REALITY, BUT THE REALITY IS THAT WE ARE NOT MATURE ENOUGH, YET, TO DO THAT KIND OF THING, I THINK, EVEN IN THE ADULT WORLD, OBVIOUSLY, SO THERE HAS GOT TO BE SOME BALANCE ABOUT THIS. OTHERWISE WE WOULDN'T NEED ANY LAWS. EVERYBODY WOULD JUST GET ALONG WITH ONE ANOTHER AND TOLERATE AND DO ALL OF THAT KIND OF THING, TOO. BUT I DO THINK WE HAVE GOT -- THE TEACHERS AND THE ADMINISTRATION HAVE BEEN GIVEN THIS RESPONSIBILITY, AND AS MUCH AS WE WANT TO RESPECT THE STUDENTS AND, OF COURSE WE WOULDN'T WANT THEM TO BE ABLE TO COME OUT OUT -- WE WOULD WANT THEM TO BE ABLE TO COME OUT OF SCHOOL, READY TO HIT THE GROUND RUNNING, SO TO SPEAK, AND BESIDES THAT, THIS IS OUR ASSIGNMENT. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE GOT TO COME UP.

THE STUDENTS WANT TO DO THAT, TOO, BUT WE ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO MOVE QUICK. WE HAVE TO STOP IN ABOUT SIX MINUTES, BUT INSTEAD OF GETTING ALL OF THE SPECIFICS, I THINK IT LOOKS LIKE A CONSENSUS THAT WE WOULD, WE PROBABLY WOULD, TO SOME DEGREE, PROHIBIT I AM MODEST CLOTHING. THAT -- IMMODEST CLOTHING, AND THE FACTS THAT ARE SPECIFIC TO THABS, WE WILL LEAVE TO ANOTHER DAY. WHAT ABOUT CLOTHING WITH A SLOGAN? LIKE BLANK HAT.

IF THEY WEAR IT IN MY CLASS, I HAVE THEM TURN THEIR SHIRT INSIDE OUT OR PUT A JACKET ON.

BUT, YES, WE SHOULD IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. SHOULD WE?

NO. HOW DOES IT LOOK? YOU AGREE, AGREE, AGREE. RICK IS GOING ON ALLOW EVERYTHING. BUT OKAY.

YOU ARE GOING TO LOOK AT PEOPLE WILL START LAUGHING, AND IT IS I HAVE PEOPLE COME INTO COURT. I HAD A GUY WITH THAT EXPRESSION THAT I USED, HE DID IT IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT LANGUAGES. BUT, ANYWAY, YOU THINK, WELL, I TAKE A REAL LIBERAL POSITION, IN TERMS OF DRESS CODE IN THE COURTROOM, AND SAY IF THAT IS HOW YOU WANT TO PRESENT YOURSELF, THAT IS OKAY, BUT YOU HAVE GOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE FORM IMPRESSIONS ABOUT YOU, BY THE WAY YOU DRESS. HOW ABOUT -- WE TALKED ABOUT HATS. NOTHING WRONG WITH HATS IN GENERAL?

NO.

BUT MAYBE NOT IN THE CLASSROOM?

RIGHT.

JUST --

YOU WILL BE PUNISHED IF YOU WEAR THE HAT IN THE CLASSROOM BUT NOT IF WEAR THE HAT OUTSIDE.

OUTSIDE, IN THE HALLS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND FORGET ABOUT THE FACT THAT SOMEBODY MISTAKE IT.

YOU CAN'T WEAR HATS IN THE CLASSROOM.

LIKE JOHN SAID EARLIER, IT IS JUST A SIGN OF RESPECT. IF YOU ARE OUT IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC, JUST TO SHOW YOUR MANNERS, YOU DON'T DO IT. YOU KNOW, HOW ABOUT SPITTING ON THE SIDEWALK? IT IS NOT A REAL HEALTH PROBLEM. EVERYBODY SAYS IT IS, BUT IT IS VERY RUDE.

THE FACT IS WE ARE IN A JERRY SPRINGER WORLD.

YES. YES, MA'AM.

ACTUALLY I THINK THAT THE HATS IN THE CLASSROOM DEPEND ON THE INDIVIDUAL. LIKE, IF YOU ARE GOING TO WEAR THE HAT AT SCHOOL AND STUFF, AND MAYBE SOME TEACHERS ACTUALLY DO --

HATS ARE ALLOWED, BUT IF A TEACHER ASKS YOU TO TAKE IT OFF IN THEIR CLASS, YOU HAVE TO DO IT.

BASEBALL CAPS AND THINGS ARE NOT LIKE HATS THAT --

SO MANY BETTER-. -- SOMBRERO.

LIKE WHAT IF THE KID HAS CANCER? THAT CAN BE EMBARRASSING.

WE CAN PROVIDE EXCEPTIONS, IF YOU CAN SHOW THAT YOU NEED TO WEAR IT FOR LEGITIMATE REASONS.

HOW ABOUT IF KIDS WEAR THINGS CALLED DO-RAGS? THOSE ARE NOT NECESSARY.

WHEN WE SAY HATS, WE MEAN HATS AND CAPS. ANY KIND OF HEAD COVERING, AND WE WOULD SAY GENERALLY WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM IN OUR SCHOOL, IF YOU WANT TO WEAR A HAT, BUT IF A TEACHER ASKS YOU TO REMOVE IT IN THE CLASS, YOU SHOULD, AND IF FOR SOME REASON IT IS VERY DISTRACTING, THAT CATCH-ALL PHRASE, OR IF IT IS TOO WIDE AND EVERYBODY CAN'T GET DOWN THE HALLWAY, BECAUSE YOU HAVE GOT TOO BIG AFTER HAT OR SOMETHING, AS AN EXCEPTION, THAT IS OKAY, FOR HATS, BUT MEDICAL REASONS ARE OKAY?

A YAM YOU WILL CAME. -- A YARMULCA.

HOW ABOUT BODY PIERCINGS?

EVERYONE KNOWS THOSE ARE DISTRACTING. COVER IT UP.

WHAT IF A GIRL DECIDES TO STRETCH.

SO LET'S SAY WHO IS IN FAVOR OF -- ANY KIND OF REGULATION ON BODY PIERCING? WE WILL GET TO THE DETAILS IN JUST A SECOND.

I DON'T CARE. IT DOESN'T DISTRACT ME.

IF PEOPLE, WHEN THEY WERE GROWING UP.

I THINK IT WAS LIKE ART WAS SAYING EARLIER. YOU SEE SOMEBODY WITH PURPLE OR GREEN OR ORANGE HAIRS, YOU SAY NOT FOR ME. THAT FASHION STATEMENT, I JUST DON'T AGREE WITH IT, BUT IT IS NOT ONE OF THOSE THINGS, WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GET UP AND JUMP UP AND DOWN. CONSENSUS, WE ARE NOT TOO WORRIED ABOUT BOD -- WORRIED WITH BODY PIERCING? OKAY. WHAT ABOUT GANG INSIGNIA.

IT COULD BE MILLIONS OF THINGS. WHERE DO YOU DRAW A LINE?

THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION, BUT LET'S ASSUME FOR A SECOND THAT YOU COULD, IN FACT, I HAD TIE WITH WHAT IT IS -- IDENTIFY WHAT IT IS.

I KNOW THIS BOY IN CALIFORNIA, THAT A COLOR OF SHOES, YOU CAN'T ELIMINATE AND SAY YOU CAN'T WEAR THAT COLOR OF SHOES, BECAUSE GANGS I THINK OF THAT AS SOME -- GANGS THINK OF THAT AS SOME KIND OF SYMBOL.

SUPPOSE YOU COULD. SUPPOSE, FOR EXAMPLE, WE ALL KNOW THAT CERTAIN GANG WEARS OAKLAND RAIDER JACKETS, AND THEY SAY WAIT A SECOND, NOW, YOU CAN'T WEAR OAKLAND RAIDER JACKETS, BECAUSE EVERYBODY IDENTIFIES IT AS A GANG. YOU ARE SHAKING YOUR HEAD NO.

WHAT ABOUT TRENCH COATS? THAT IS A REACTION.

YOU THINK?

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN REGULATE THAT, BECAUSE SOMETIMES THEY DO THINGS THAT ANY OTHER PERSON WILL WEAR, ALSO.

SO WHAT I AM HEARING IS THAT, FOR ONE REASON, IT IS TOO HARD TO TELL WHAT GANG INSIGNIA IS, AND EVEN IF YOU COULD, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF IT? SOMEBODY TELL ME, IS THERE AN ARGUMENT OVER HERE FOR REGULATING GANG INSIGNIA?

WOULDN'T THAT FALL IN THE SAME LINE AS WEARING A NAZI HAT? BECAUSE IT COULD BE OFFENSIVE. YOU COULD HAVE SOME KIDS IN THAT CLASS, IN SCHOOL, KIDS IN SCHOOL THAT PROBABLY KNOW MORE ABOUT GANG AFFILIATIONS THAN WE WILL KNOW. WE ARE NOT OUT THERE.

SO ARE YOU ARGUING THAT WE SHOULD?

I DON'T AGREE WITH IT, BUT IF WE ARE NOT GOING TO ALLOW A NAZI HAT BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW WHAT THAT SUPPOSEDLY MEANS, THEN WHY ALLOW THE GANG HAT, BECAUSE THAT IS HATE.

HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO A NAZI HAT YET. ALL WE TALKED ABOUT WAS -- WE DIDN'T AGREE WITH. THAT YOU ALL WERE JUST HAVING A DISCUSSION.

I APOLOGIZE. I THOUGHT YOU ALL ASSUMED THAT THAT WAS NOT AGREED ON.

ALL WE AGREED ON IS THAT YOU CAN'T WEAR A HEAD COVERING, IF THE TEACHER SAID IT IS DISRESPECT FOR ME AND TAKE IT OFF IN MY CLASS. OTHERWISE YOU CAN WEAR A HAT. NOW, WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT WHAT IS ON THE HAT. RIGHT NOW IT IS A GANG INSIGNIA. BUT YOU CAN SAY IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GANG INSIGNIA AND NAZI INSIGNIA? SO WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE GANG INSIGNIA THOUGH? I PERSONALLY THINK I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY APPROPRIATE IT, BUT I KIND OF AGREE WITH THE IDEA OF IT CHANGES FROM DAY-TO-DAY, AS TO WHAT GANG INSIGNIAS, AND YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. IT INFRINGES ON MY RIGHT AS A STUDENT, IF I COME AND WANT TO WEAR A PARTICULAR ITEM OF CLOTHING, THAT THE ONLY REASON I CAN'T WEAR IT IS SOME GANG HAPPENS TO LIKE IT, TOO. YOU ARE PROTECTING THE GANG'S RIGHT TO BE A GANG. THEY ARE STILL GOING TO WEAR ALL OF THAT STUFF, BUT I CAN SEE WHY THEY DON'T WANT TO DISCOURAGE THAT. PEOPLE WEAR GANG INSIGNIAS, LIKE, HEY, GREAT, I KNOW THERE IS SIMM PAT I CAN-OVER SOMETHING LIKE THAT. -- SYMPATICO OVER SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND I GET THE IMPRESSION THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO TRY ENFORCE IT.

THEY WERE WEARING RED SHIRTS BECAUSE THEY WERE GANG-RELATED. I REMEMBER FDLE AGENTS CAME IN AT MY SCHOOL AND TOLD US ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU SHOULD BE CAREFUL, THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO AND GIVE THAT MIGHT BE MISINTERPRETED BY A GANG AND GET YOU KILLED.

I THINK TO RESTRICT YOU FROM WEARING ANYTHING THAT YOU MIGHT THINK HAS TO DO WITH A GANG.

OKAY. WHAT ABOUT, REAL QUICK, WELL, WE ARE, REALLY, OUT OF TIME. LET'S GO TO THAT SECOND QUESTION. PROCEDURAL RIGHTS. -WHAT ABOUT WEARING UNDERGARMENTS? WE HAD A BIG THING, AT LEON, ABOUT GIRLS THAT DIDN'T WEAR BRAS, AND THINGS HAPPENED. IT WAS A BIG, BIG THING, BUT I THINK THAT STUDENTS SHOULD HAVE TO WEAR A BRA. I MEAN, EVEN GIRLS THAT WEAR THOSE -- I MEAN, WE HAD GIRLS THAT WORRY WHITE SHORTS.

SOME THINGS YOU CAN REGULATE, BUT I MEAN, YOU CAN REGULATE IT WITH THE BRASS, BUT -- WITH THE BRAS, BUT THAT IS THE ONLY THING --

COME OVER HERE RIGHT NOW. WE ARE GOING TO CHECK AND SEE IF YOU HAVE GOT UNDERWEAR ON.

LET ME SEE IF YOU ARE WEARING UNDERGARMENTS.

WELL, I THINK THAT COMES UNDER WE ALL AGREE WE WOULD TRY TO LIMIT IMMODEST CLOTHING. THAT WOULD PROBABLY COME UNDER THAT, AND WE WILL GET -- SPECIFICS WE WILL LEAVE FOR ANOTHER DAY, BUT PROCEDURAL RIGHT. LET'S SAY WE HAVE GOT A DRESS CODE AND SOMEBODY IS ACCUSED OF VIOLATING.

I GOT IT THEN. YOU CAN'T WEAR CLOTHING THAT --

THAT IS IMMODEST. LET'S SUPPOSE THAT -- REMIND ME OF YOUR NAME NOW.

MAY GO AND.

MAY GO AND IS -- MEGAN IS ON MY TRIAL TEAM AT LEON. LET'S SAY THAT MEGAN IS HYPOCRITICAL AND GOES TO CLASS WITHOUT A BRA AND SHE IS CALLED DOWN, AND WE HAVE GOT TO DECIDE WHAT PROCEDURAL RIGHTS DO WE GIVE HER, IF ANY. THE FIRST QUESTION IS WHAT TYPE OF HEARING, IF ANY. SHOULD THE STUDENT HAVE A HEARING, IF SHE IS IN VIOLATION OF THIS CODE? WE ARE GETTING A NOD. THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME KIND OF HEARING.

IT COULD BE FOR SOME RELIGIOUS REASON THAT THEY HAVE SOMETHING.

SOME TYPE OF HEARING, NOT JUST PRINCIPAL OR THE TEACHERS SAYS, ON OKAY, YOU ARE IN VIOLATION. YOU ARE GONE. OKAY. WHAT KIND OF HEARING? ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE A LAWYER AT THIS HEARING?

NO. IT'S NOT THAT BIG.

WHAT IS THE PENALTY THOUGH?

BEFORE WE KNOW IF THEY SHOULD HAVE AN ATTORNEY AVAILABLE TO THEM.

DOES IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO YOU?

OH, SURE.

LIKE JUSTICE ANSTEAD WAS SAYING EARLIER, THE MORE SEVERE THE CONSEQUENCES, THE MORE RIGHT YOU MIGHT HAVE TO A LAWYER, BUT FOR SOMETHING FAIRLY MINOR, YOU MIGHT GET DETENTION HALL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, MAYBE, WE WOULD HAVE SOME KIND OF HEARING, AND IT WOULD BE LIKE WE SAID EARLIER. DEPENDING ON HOW SERIOUS IT WAS, YOU KNOW, IF IT IS GOING TO EXPEL YOU FROM SCHOOL, I THINK IF YOU LOOK IN THE CHEAT SHEET, IF YOU ARE SUSPENDED FOR MORE THAN TEN DAYS, YOU HAVE A PROPERTY INTEREST IN YOUR RIGHT TO EDUCATION, AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO SIGNIFICANTLY IMPAIR THAT, YOU HAVE GOT PROCEDURAL RIGHTS, SO YOU PROBABLY HAVE THAT. SOME CHANCE TO BE HEARD AT ANY OF THOSE HEARINGS, RIGHT? OPPORTUNITY TO SAY YOUR SIDE OF IT AND GIVE YOUR EXPLANATION. HOW ABOUT TO CONFRONT YOUR ACCUSERS. YOU ALWAYS HEAR OF THAT IN A CRIMINAL CASE. I HAVE GOT THE RIGHT TO CONFRONT MY ACCUSERS. THEY SAID YOU WERE VIOLATING IT. OF COURSE IF IT IS A TEACHER, YOU HAVE GOT THEM RIGHT THERE, BUT IT COULD BE SOMEBODY ELSE THAT COMPLAINED ABOUT IT. SHOULD YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT, TO BE ABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS OF --

I MEAN, IF YOU ARE VIOLATING IN THE CLASSROOM, YOU SHOULD --

IT SHOULD BE VIOLATING ON THAT. I GUESS FROM A DRESS CODE STANDPOINT, YOU CAN TELL, RIGHT THERE, WHETHER IT SAYS THAT.

UNLESS YOU WANT TO TAKE A PICTURE AND, IF THEY COMPLAIN A COUPLE OF DAYS LAERTION YOU CAN SHOW THE PICTURE AND SAY THEY DID VIOLATE IT.

[INAUDIBLE .n]

WE ARE GOING TO GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO EXPLAIN THEMSELVES. MAYBE IF IT IS WITH AN ATTORNEY, IF THEY ARE EXPELLED FROM SCHOOL OR SUSENDED FOR A LONG TIME, AND MAYBE AT THAT TIME, IF THERE ARE WITNESSES AGAINST ME, I AM GOING TO HAVE A RIGHT TO QUESTION THEM. WHO IS GOING TO MAKE A DECISION THEN? WE HAVE ALL THIS PROCEDURE. I GET A CHANCE TO EXPLAIN MYSELF AND SAY IT WAS A MEDICAL PROBLEM. THAT IS WHY I HAD THE HAT. I WENT TO CHEM' THEY WERE. WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU -- CHEMOTHERAPY. WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU. CAN I CALL MY DOCTOR? BUT WHO IS GOING TO MAKE THE DECISION, ONCE IT IS ALL EXPLAINED AND ALL OF THE WITNESSES TESTIFY, WHO IS GOING TO MAKE A DECISION?

EVERYBODY. TEACHERS AND PEERS.

A JOINT COMMITTEE MADE UP OF TEACHERS, ADMINISTRATORS AND STUDENTS?

IT MIGHT BE GOOD TO TAKE SOME OF THE STUDENTS FROM THE ACTUAL CLASS THAT THE STUDENT IS TAKEN OUT OF, AND THAT GOES BACK TO THE DISRUPTION THING. THEY CAN BE THE JUDGE OF WHETHER THE STUDENT WAS DISRUPTIVE OR NOT.

SO A JOINT THING OF STUDENTS, ADMINISTRATORS AND TEACHERS. OKAY. AND WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE BURDEN OF PROOF? IS IT GOING TO BE -- A LOT OF YOU SAID IT SHOULD BE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, WHICH IS THE HIGHES STANDARD THAT WE HAVE. THAT IS A CRIMINAL CASE. YOU HAVE GOT TO ELIMINATE EVERY REASONABLE DOUBT AS TO WHETHER IT IS A VIOLATION OR NOT. WHETHER IT IS A VIOLATION OR NOT, DO YOU CONCLUDE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, IF IT IS A VIOLATION? A PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE? WE DON'T HAVE TO PROVE YOU WERE VIOLATING THE DRESS CODE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, JUST A GREATER WEIGHT OF THE EVIDENCE. AND DOES EVERYBODY AGREE THE BURDEN OUGHT TO BE ON THE CHARGING AUTHORITY, ON THE PRINCIPLE -- ON THE PRINCIPAL OR WHOEVER SAYS YOU VIOLATED IT? IN OTHER WORDS YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE YOU ARE NOT IN VIOLATION. BOY. COMMITTEE WE SKIDDED UNDER THAT THING JUST IN TIME. YOU ALL NEED TO TAKE A BREAK? WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE BACK AT 11:30. YOU HAVE GOT ABOUT THREE MINUTES. THERE ARE RESTROOMS DOWN THE HALLWAY, IF YOU NEED. THAT AND JOHN TOOK GOOD NOTES. ART WILL HELP YOU WITH THE --

DISCHARGE. [A RECESS IS TAKEN] [ [A RECESS IS TAKEN]

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? I KNOW YOU ARE EXCITED AND HAVING A GOOD TIME DISCUSSING IT, BUT WE HAVE GOT TO GET GOING HERE, BECAUSE IT IS 11:35. WE HAVE SEVEN GROUPS TO REPORT. CAN YOU HEAR ME? SO WITH THAT MANY GROUPS AND THE AMOUNT OF TIME, I AM GOING TO ASK YOU TO TAKE NO MORE THAN FIVE MINUTES. I WANT TO HEAR A REPORT FROM EACH GROUP, AS TO WHAT YOU WANT TO COME UP WITH. WE HAVE GOT THE "NO DOT" GROUP FIRST. JOHN, COME DOWN, IF YOU ARE RIGHT THERE. HE IS OUR REPORTER. ANYBODY ELSE, USE THIS MICROPHONE HERE. IS THAT OKAY, STEWS SUZANNE, IF HE STAYS -- IS THAT OKAY, SUSAN, IF HE HAS GOT A MICROPHONE? JOHN IS THE REPORTER AND ART IS THE RECORDER.

WELL, WE DECIDED, WITH OUR GROUP, THAT WAS HEADED PIE JUDGE LEWIS, THAT WE WOULD HAVE A PREAMBLE TO OUR SCHOOL DRESS CODE POLICY, AND LIKE A CON STEWS -- LIKE A CONSTITUTION, ADDRESS -- A DRESS CODE, AND WE CAME TO PROMOTE RESPECT FOR OTHERS, IN ACCORDANCE WITH A GOOD EDUCATIONAL AND SAFE ENVIRONMENT. BUT OUR QUESTION WAS WHETHER WE SHOULD HAVE A DRESS CODE AT ALL. SHOULD I USE MY NOTES? BRIEFLY. I AM NOT BRIEFLY USUALLY. BUT THE TYPE OF DRESS CODE THAT WE WANTED TO HAVE WAS A NO DISPLAY OF UNDERGARMENTS, SKIRTS OR SHORTS NO HIGHER THAN YOUR FINGERTIPS, AT ARM'S LENGTH, HATS AND COATS BUT NOT IN THE CLASSROOM, AND WE WEREN'T TOO WORRIED ABOUT BODY PIERCINGS AND GANG INSIGNIA AT ALL. WE THOUGHT THAT WAS TOO MUCH SUGAR FOR A DOT. PROCEDURAL RIGHTS, WE CAME TO THE TYPES OF CONSEQUENCES. THE RIGHT TO HAVE A HEARING, THE RIGHT TO CONFRONT YOUR ACCUSERS, THE RIGHT OF THE STUDENT TO BE HEARD. DECISIONS MADE BY, LIKE, A JOINT COMMITTEE, WITH STUDENTS, TEACHERS AND ADMINISTRATORS. A BURDEN OF PROOF BY THE ADMINISTRATION, FOR THE PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE. THAT IS WHAT WE CAME UP WITH, IN A NUTSHELL.

ACTUALLY ART WAS SHAKING HIS HEAD, BECAUSE HE HAS GOT A LOT OF STUFF THAT HE TOOK THAT YOU DIDN'T HAVE. WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON WHETHER YOU SHOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A CODE OR NOT. WE HAD A GOOD BIT OF DISCUSSION ON WHETHER WE NEEDED ANY KIND OF DRESS CODE AT ALL, BUT WE ENDED UP HAVING ONE, BECAUSE THE EXERCISE PROVIDED FOR IT. THERE YOU GO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, NO-DOT GROUP. [APPLAUSE] RED DOT GROUP. WHERE IS THOSE RED DOTS?

THANKS.

COULD WE VISUALLY SEE WHO WAS IN THAT GROUP?

THOSE CRAZY RULES. THERE THEY ARE. [APPLAUSE] THE REPORTER NEEDS TO COME OVER HERE, TO THE MICROPHONE. THIS IS THE REASON, JOHN, THAT WE WERE GOING TO HAVE IT OVER THERE.

WE DIDN'T COME ANYWHERE NEAR -- WE DECIDED SOME GREAT DIVISION IN OUR GROUP -- WE HAD SOME GREAT DIVISION IN OUR GROUP. AMONG TEACHERS AND STUDENTS. A GREAT DISAGREEMENT. THEY DID A GREAT JOB.

WILL YOU FLIP IT OVER FOR RIGHT NOW?

WE CAME UP WITH A GENERAL STATEMENT THAT WE WANTED TO HAVE, AT THE BEGINNING OF OUR DRESS CODE, AND THE STATEMENT WAS, IT WAS MODELED AFTER THE ORANGE COUNTY HANDBOOK STATEMENT THAT THEY HAVE, AT THE BEGINNING OF THEIRS, AND IT STATES THAT" THE DRESS SHALL CONTRIBUTE TO THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE INDIVIDUAL AND PROMOTE A POSITIVE EDUCATIONAL ENVIRONMENT AND NOT DISRUPT THE EDUCATIONAL ACTIVITIES AND PROS ESZ OF SCHOOL. THESE -- PROCESSES OF THE SCHOOL. THESE MANNERS OF DRESS AND GROOMING SHALL APPLY TO K-12 AND AN EXEMPTION IS ADDRESSED BY THE PRINCIPAL. ANY REQUEST FOR EXEMPTION SHALL BE MADE TO THE PRINCIPAL." AND THE ONLY REAL THINGS, ISSUE THAT WE COULD, REALLY, AGREE ON, ARE THE ONES THAT ARE STATED UP THERE THAT WE WANTED A GENERAL IDEA, BECAUSE WE COULDN'T AGREE ON ANYTHING SPECIFICAROUNDS WHAT WE HAVE LISTED, AS FAR AS CLOTHING, IS WE DIDN'T WANT ANYTHING THAT IS OBSCENE OR ANYTHING THAT IS IMMODEST AND NOTHING THAT IS ADVERTISING ANYTHING ILLEGAL. WE DECIDED EARLY ON, THAT WE DIDN'T WANT ANY REGULATIONS ON APPEARANCE, AS FAR AS HAIR AND PIERCINGS, BUT WE DID HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A DEBATE ON TATTOOS, AND, BUT, THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH THE ONLY THING THAT WE HAD DEBATED ON, AS FAR AS APPEARANCE GOES. WHAT WE DID AGREE ON WAS THAT WE DIDN'T WANT ANY GANG SYMBOLS, ANYTHING THAT WAS PROMOTING VIOLENCE OR ANYTHING OR HATRED. WE DIDN'T WANT ANY ADVERTISING OF ALCOHOL OR ANY OTHER ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES, SUCH AS, YOU KNOW, DRUGS OR SMOKING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. AND WE, ALSO, DIDN'T WANT -- WE, ALSO, AGREED THAT WE DIDN'T WANT ANY MIDARRIVES SHOWING AND THAT WE WANTED THE -- MIDRIFFS SHOWING AND THAT WE WANTED THE SKIRTS TO BE PAST THE FINGERTIPS, AND THAT WAS THE CONCLUSION, AS FAR AS OUR GROUP WENT, BUT WE ALSO HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS ON BEHAVIOR VERSUS APPEARANCE AND, ALSO, DIFFERENCES IN COMMUNITY RESPECT HOW, DIFFERENCE COMMUNITIES HAVE DIFFERENT STANDARDS, LIKE ORANGE COUNTY MIGHT HAVE ARE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STANDARD FOR DRESS CODE, AS FAR AS IN COMPARISON TO DADE COUNTY, WHICH SOMEBODY MENTIONED EARLIER, IN HERE, THAT SOMEBODY CAME TO SCHOOL WEARING A DRESS. WELL, IN OUR GROUP, WE HAD SOMEBODY FROM DADE COUNTY SAID THAT IS, YOU KNOW, IT IS PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE, NOT EVEN A BIG DEAL IN DADE COUNTY, NEAR MIAMI, WHERE THERE IS A LOT MORE OF THAT GOING ON DOWN THERE THAN IN SMALLER TOWNS. I MEAN -- YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. THAN IN SMALLER TOWNS. [LAUGHTER] I DON'T KNOW. I WASN'T UP-TO-DATE ON THAT CONVERSATION.

COME OVER TO MIAMI. [LAUGHTER]

AND, ALSO, ANOTHER ISSUE, ONE OF THE LAST ISSUES THAT WE, ALSO, DISCUSSED, WAS THAT A LOT OF SITUATIONS NEED TO BE HANDLED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS, AND THAT YOU CAN'T JUST BROAD, LIKE, BROAD LINE EVERYTHING AND PUT A BLANKET OVER EVERYTHING AND SAY THIS IS HOW IT IS GOING TO BE FOR EVERY SCHOOL BOARD OR THIS IS HOW IT IS GOING TO BE FOR EVERY STUDENT, BECAUSE ALSO THERE IS ALWAYS AN EXCEPTION FOR EVERYTHING, AND THAT IS PRETTY MUCH WHAT WE GOT DONE IN OUR GROUP.

ALL RIGHT! [APPLAUSE]

STAND UP. WE ARE ESPECIALLY INTERESTED IN THE DADE COUNTY REPRESENTATIVE. STAND UP WITH THAT GROUP. RED DOTS. [APPLAUSE] WHERE ARE THE YELLOW DOT FOLKS? YELLOW DOT. [APPLAUSE] BY YOURSELF? NOBODY IS GOING TO HELP YOU?

SHE HAS GOT A PARTNER.

OKAY. FIRST I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY OUR GROUP, ALSO, WAS -- HAD A LOT OF CONTROVERSY, AND DECIDING A DRESS CODE, WE DECIDED WE COULD NOT JUST DECIDE A DRESS CODE IN AN HOUR. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE, SO WE HAD A LOT OF DIFFERENT ISSUES THAT WE DISCUSSED, AND FIRST IT WAS SAID, IT IS A DRESS CODE WHERE YOU ARE COVERED FROM YOUR NECK TO YOUR KNEE, AND WE DISCUSSED THE SHORTS, LIKE THE GIRLS CAN'T FIND SHORTS IN STORES THAT GO DOWN TO YOUR KNEES OR JUST LIKE THEY ARE INCHES ABOVE THE KNEES. THEY ARE NOT MADE THAT LONG, AND SO WE HAD AN IDEA THAT THEY CAN BE, THE SHORT LENGTH CAN BE ANYWHERE FROM YOUR HAND, LIKE, IT CAN BE AS SHORT AS A DRESS OR AS LONG OR LONGER THAN YOUR FINGERTIPS, AND THE NECK, WE, ALSO, DISCUSSED THE SHIRT, LIKE, THE LENGTH, THE COLORADO ARTICLE OF THE SHIRT CAN GO -- THE COLLAR OF YOUR SHIRT CAN GO BELOW YOUR SHE WOULD. -- YOUR SHOULDER. AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE BIG DISCUSSIONS. WHAT IF IT WAS ISSUE THAT THEY CAN WEAR KHAKIS AND A POLO SHIRT, AND THAT WOULD NOT BE A UNIFORM BUT A UNIFORM THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE, AND THAT WAS A CONTROVERSY, BECAUSE NOT ALL PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO WEAR KHAKIS AND A POLO SHIRT, BECAUSE THEY DON'T GET TO EXPRESS THEIR PERSONAL NEEDS, AND THEN WE DECIDED THAT THE NEXT NEED WOULD BE, ALSO, LIKE, CONSIDERED, LIKE THE TECHNICALITIES, DETERMINED BY PARENTS AND STAFF, TO DETERMINE WHAT OFF ENDS THEM AND WHAT IS IN STYLE WITH THEM, AND IT HELPS, AND THAT IT BE ADHERED BY THE STAFF AND STUDENTS ABOUT THE DRESS CODE, AND THEN ABOUT THE HEARING, HOW TO DEAL WITH DRESS CODE VIOLATIONS, WE DECIDED THAT, IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A NEW DRESS CODE, LIKE, IF YOU HAVE A SET DRESS CODE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR AND IT CHANGES, THEN THE NEW DRESS CODE WILL BE I SHOULD ON JANUARY OF THE NEW SCHOOL YEAR, AND YOU MUST HAVE ALL YOUR DRESS CODE IN JANUARY, AND THEN DISCIPLINE WISE, WHERE WE WENT WITH A GRADUATED SYSTEM, WHERE THE FIRST TIME YOU GET A VERBAL WARNING, OF CLOTHING TO COVER UP, LIKE, SAY, THIS SHIRT, AND WE JUST DISCUSSED, LIKE, MOST SCHOOLS HAVE LOST AND FOUND, AND WE CAN WATCH THE CLOTHES IN LOST AND FOUND, AND IF THE CLOTHING IS SO OFFENSIVE AND REVEALING, THEN THE TEACHER OR WHOEVER OR THE STAFF GIVES THE PERSON A SHIRT TO COVER, AND IT GHOST FIRST OFFENSE, AND THEN IF YOU ARE THE SECOND OFFENSE, YOU GET A REFERRAL WITH PARENT CONTACT. THEY CONTACT YOUR PARENT, AND THEY DISCUSS THE PROBLEM WITH THE PARENT, AND THEN IF THEY GET TO BE A PROBLEM, THERE IS A HEARING, AND THE HEARING, WE DECIDED, SHOULD BE RUN BY STUDENTS, AND THEY CAN HAVE A STUDENT ATTORNEY, WHICH WE DISCUSSED, BECAUSE THE STUDENTS, REALLY, KNOW WHAT, BECAUSE THE STAFF, I MEAN, THEY ARE NOT OUR AGE GROUP. THEY, REALLY, DON'T KNOW WHAT -- I MEAN SOME. NO OFFENSE. BUT -- AND -- BUT THE STUDENTS HAVE, LIKE, A LITTLE -- LIKE WHAT IS REALLY OFFENSIVE FOR THEM, AND IT COULD BE, LIKE, A STUDENT ATTORNEY TO HELP THEM, AND WE HAD A LOT OF CONTROVERSY, AND IT WAS VERY HARD TO DECIDE THESE. [APPLAUSE]

WHERE ARE THE REST OF THOSE YELLOW DOTS. YELLOW DOTS, STAND UP, SO WE CAN SEE WHO IS ON THAT TEAM. [APPLAUSE]

GOOD JOB.

OKAY. GREEN DOTS. GREEN DOTS.

OUR GROUP SOUNDS LIKE EVERY GROUP HERE. WE HAD A LOT OF TROUBLE, COMING TO COMPROMISES. I THINK ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WAS WE DIDN'T KNOW A LOT ABOUT THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE SCHOOL THAT WE WERE DEALING WITH, BUT OVERALL, WE DECIDED THAT THE DRESS CODE SHOULD BE CREATED BY A KIND OF LITTLE GROUP OF STUDENTS, PARENTS, ADMINISTRATORS AND TEACHERS, SO THAT WITH THIS COMMUNITY INPUT, THE STUDENTS CAN TAKE PRIDE IN THE DRESS CODE, AND THEY WOULD HAVE A SAY IN IT, AND SO THAT WAY THERE WOULD BE LESS CONTROVERSY AND, HOPEFULLY, LESS INFRINGEMENTS OF IT, AND WE KIND OF HAD, LIKE, A MISSION STATEMENT PURPOSE OF OUR DRESS CODE IS TO ELIMINATE ITEMS THAT DISRUPT THE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT, AND THAT KIND OF FOCUSES ON THE FIRST AMENDMENT, AND OUR CODE, OUR THREE MAIN THINGS WERE NO HEAD COVERINGS IN BUILDINGS, AND, OF COURSE, IF YOU HAVE RELIGIOUS REASONS FOR WEARING THEM, THEN THAT IS AN EXCEPTION, BUT THAT KIND OF COVERS, IF YOU WANT TO WEAR A BASEBALL HAT OUTSIDE OR SOMETHING TO KEEP YOUR HEAD WARM THAT, IS FINE. JUST DON'T BRING IT IN THE BUILDING. WE DIDN'T WANT ANY GANG INSIGNIAS OR CLOTHING AFFILIATING WITH ANY GANG, AND NO CLOTHING THAT HAD OBSCENE SLOGANS THAT PORTRAYED ANYTHING DEALING WITH SEX, DRUGS, ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, PROFANITY, HATE MESSAGES OR SYMBOLS, AND I THINK THAT THE HATE MESSAGES OR SYMBOLS KIND OF WENT BACK TO THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE SCHOOL, WHERE INSERT POPULATIONS, CERTAIN SYMBOLS ARE MORE OFFENSIVE THAN OTHERS, AND WE COULDN'T RULE OUT SPECIFIC SYMBOLS, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW THE CHILDREN THAT ARE GOING TO BE ATTENDING THE SCHOOL, BUT ANYWAY ENFORCEMENT WOULD BE CONSISTENT SCHOOL WIDE. UNLESS YOU HAD A RELIGIOUS PURPOSE, THERE WOULD BE NO GENDER, NO RACE THAT WOULD BE EXEMPT FROM THE DRESS CODE. WE DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HAIR LENGTH OR BODY PIERCINGS. WE FEEL THAT THAT IS JUST A PART OF OUR CULTURE NOW, AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY KIND OF A PROBLEM WITH THAT, AND VIOLATORS, WE FELT THAT VIOLATORS COULD BE DEALT WITH, WITH SUSPENSION OR WITH DETENTIONS, BUT IF IT GOT TO THE POINT WHERE THERE WAS A STUDENT WHO JUST REPEATEDLY WAS DOING THINGS TO CALL ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES, THEN THEY WOULD BE TAKEN TO A HEARING, WHERE THE SAME REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE SAME GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO MADE UP THE DRESS CODE, LIKE A STUDENT REPRESENTATIVE, A PARENT REPRESENTATIVE, ADMINISTRATION AND TEACHER REPRESENTATIVES, WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE IF THE STUDENT NEEDED TO BE EXPELLED, AND AT THE HEARING, THERE COULD BE AN ARBITRATOR PRESENT FOR THE STUDENT WHO WAS ON TRIAL. AND THAT IS ABOUT ALL WE CAME UP WITH.

THAT IS GOOD.

ALL RIGHT. [APPLAUSE]

WHERE ARE THE REST OF THOSE GREEN DOTS? ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO CLAIM GREEN DOT STAT US?

YES. ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. ORANGE DOT.

I BET SOMEBODY LUNCH THAT WE WERE THE MOST IN DECISIVE GROUP. WE DIDN'T COME UP WITH TOO MUCH SPECIFIC.

DON'T BE SO SURE. WE STARTED OUT WITH A PURPOSE, AND THE PURPOSE OF OUR DRESS CODE IS FOR ALL STUDENTS TO OBTAIN AN EDUCATION, WHILE ALLOWING PERSONAL EXPRESSION BUT NOT DISRUPTING THE LEARNING EXPERIENCE OF OTHER STUDENTS. THAT, WE ALL AGREED ON. WE WENT ON TO DEFINE DISRUPTION AS SUBSTANTIALLY INTERFERING WITH REQUIREMENTS OF APPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR, BECAUSE BEHAVIOR SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS MORE DEFINED WITHIN A SCHOOL, LIKE GETTING IN A FIGHT IN THE HALLWAY. IF IT STEMS FROM THE DRESS CODE, WE CAN USE THE BEHAVIOR STANDARDS THAT ARE ALREADY IN PLACE. THE CLOTHING ITEMS THAT WE PROHIBITED WERE ITEMS THAT HAD SYMBOLS OR SLOGANS THAT FEATURED TOBACCO AND CIGARETTES, ALCOHOL, OBSCENITIES OR SEXUAL CONTENT. WE DIDN'T LAY SPECIFIC GUIDELINES DOWN FOR STRAP WIDTHS OR SKIRT LENGTHS, BECAUSE WE HAD TOO MUCH DIFFERENCE IN OUR GRUPT. THERE WAS A COMPLETE -- IN OUR GROUP. FLFS A COMPLETE DIFFERENT ON HE -- THERE WAS A COMPLETE DIFFERENT SPECTRUM OF PEOPLE. THERE WAS NO GUIDELINE O'HARE LENGTH OR COLOR OR PIERCINGS. AND NONRELIGIOUS CLOTHING WILL NOT BE PROHIBITED. AS LONG AS IT IS NOT OFFENDING OR CAUSING FIGHTS, GO AHEAD AND WEAR T THE ONLY GUIDELINES THAT WE LAID -- THE ONLY GUIDELINES THAT WE LAID DOWN FOR A HEARING IS IF IT GOES TO THE SEVERITY OR NUMBER OF OFFENSES THAT YOU CAN BE EXPELLED FROM SCHOOL, THAT YOU CAN HAVE A HEARING, AND, AGAIN, WE WERE DIVIDED AMONGST OURSELVES AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS GOING TO BE STUDENTS OR TEACHERS. SOME PEOPLE FELT THAT, IF THERE WERE STUDENTS ON THE PANEL, SOME PEOPLE WOULD BE INCRIMINATED FOR PINING IT ON SOMEONE ELSE. IF IT COMES TO WHETHER YOU ARE GOING TO BE EXPELLED OR THAT IS THE ISSUE ON THE TABLE, YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY PRESENT, BUT THAT IS YOUR CHOICE. YOU PAY FOR IT, BUT THE SCHOOL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. THAT IS WHAT THE ORANGE GROUP CAME UP WITH.

ALL RIGHT! [APPLAUSE]

ORANGE GROUP. ORANGE DOTS. ALL RIGHT. [APPLAUSE] BLACK DOTS. THEY ARE RECORDING IT. THIS IS GOING TO BE SOLD TO NBC LATER ON.

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? FIRST OF ALL, I FELT A GREAT DEAL OF RELIEF, THE MINTY WALKED IN THE ROOM AND SAW THE PROFESSOR THERE. I AM THINKING THIS IS AN EASY ASSIGNMENT, BECAUSE WE HAVE GOT "GOD" IN OUR ROOM. AFTER ABOUT FIVE MINUTES, I WANTED TO THROW HIM OUT OF THE ROOM. I AM CONVINCED WE WOULD HAVE COMPLETED THIS ASSIGNMENT, IF HE WERE NOT THERE. LIKE THE OTHER GROUPS, WE HAD A GREAT DEAL OF DIFFICULTY, AND WE CUT RIGHT TO THE CHASE, AND WE MENTIONED IMMODEST, AND WE DECIDED SHOULD WE TALK ABOUT SPAGHETTI STRAPS AND MEASUREMENTS, OR SHOULD WE TALK ABOUT SKIN SHOWING AND CLEAVAGE, AND THE PROFESSOR SAID, WELL, WHAT IS CLEAVAGE, SO WHEN WE HAVE TO START DEFINING THESE DIFFERENT BODY PARTS, I KNEW WE WERE IN TROUBLE, SO WE KIND OF CUT TO THE CHASE, AND I DON'T KNOW WHO RECOMMENDED IT, BUT WE GOT ON THE TOPIC OF UNDERWEAR, SO WE WANT TO REGULATE, FIRST OF ALL, MISS KELLY BROUGHT UP THAT WE HAVE GOT TO KEEP IN MIND THAT WE DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO DISRUPT THE EDUCATIONAL PROCESS. THAT WAS THE VERY FIRST PREMISE THAT WE STARTED WITH, SO QUESTION QUICKLY JUMPED TO UNDERWEAR, AND WE DECIDED, LOOK, IF WE DON'T WANT TO SHOW UNDERWEAR, BUT THEN THE PROBLEM COMES, THERE ARE CERTAIN ACTIVITIES AND CERTAIN SCHOOLS WHICH PERMIT THAT, LIKE, THE DAN SKINS AND CERTAIN CHEERLEADER OUTFITS WITH THE BODY SUITS. AND WE GOT INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT SCHOOL ACTIVITY, AND THEN WE GOT INTO A QUESTION OF WHAT GOES ON AFTER SCHOOL AT TRACK PRACTICE AND WHAT GOES ON AT A FOOTBALL EVENT, AND THEN WE REALIZED WE HAD ABOUT FIVE MINUTES LEFT, SO WE HAD HAD TO RUSH. YUFLS WAS CUT DOWN -- UNIFORMS WAS CUT DOWN, RIGHT OFF THE BAT, BUT I THINK WE, ALSO, RECOGNIZED THAT THAT WOULD SOLVE A LOT OF OUR PROBLEMS. WE DECIDED, TOWARDS THE END, TO START VOTING ON THINGS AND MAKE IT A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS, AND THAT WORKED OUT PRETTY GOOD, EXCEPT FOR WE HAD TWO CONSTANT DISSENTORS, SO WE VOTED THEM OFF THE ISLAND, AND WE FOUND OUT AN INTERESTING THING, AND I THINK THE PROFESSOR WILL AGREE WITH ME, IS THAT THE STUDENTS TOOK A MUCH HARDER STANCE THAN THE TEACHERS DID, BUT AFTER NEGOTIATING, WE CAME UP WITH A HEARING BEFORE THE SCHOOL BOARD WITH STUDENT AND TEACHER REPRESENTATION, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS PRETTY UNIQUE, AND THE DEFENDANTS MAY HAVE A -- THE DEFENDANTS. THE STUDENTS. I DIDN'T SAY THAT! THE GUILTY PERSON MAY HAVE THE STUDENT MAY HAVE A CHANCE TO REPRESENT THEMSELVES AT THE HEARING, BEFORE IT IS DECIDED, AND ESPECIALLY IF IT IS AN AP, HE CAN GIVE HIS SIDE OF THE STORY, BUT USUALLY IT IS THE PERSON WHO HAS CHARGED HIM, THE AP, SO WE KIND OF WANT TO TAKE IT ONE STEP UP AND APPEAL IT TO, MAYBE, THE PRINCIPAL, AND SEE THAT IT IS THE AP THAT DOES THE SUSPECTS, AND EXPULSION -- THE SUSPENSION, AND EXPULSIONS, WE DIDN'T WRITE THAT ON THERE, BUT EXPULSIONS, THEY ARE CERTAINLY ALLOWED TO HAVE LEGAL REPRESENTATION THERE, AS IT WOULD AND MUCH MORE SERIOUS PROCESS. WE HAD TWO DISSENTORS. WE VOTED THEM OFF THE ISLAND. [APPLAUSE]

BLACK DOTS. WHERE ARE THE BLACK DOTS. [APPLAUSE] LAST BUT NOT LEAST, THE BLUE DOTS.

BLUE.

HOW ABOUT THOSE BLUE DOTS.

[APPLAUSE]

IN OUR GROUP, WE PRETTY MUCH AGREED ON A LOT, CONTRARY TO WHAT THE OTHER GROUPS WERE. A BIG THING, WITH US, WELL, WE DECIDED THAT DRESS CODES SHOULD BE REGULATED, AND THAT CLOTHING WAS OUR MAIN FOCUS. WE DIDN'T, REALLY, FOCUS O'HARE OR PIERCINGS. SPAGHETTI STRAPS WAS A -- ON HAIR OR PIERCINGS. SPAGHETTI STRAPS WAS A BIG THING, A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION. WE AGREED THAT THE MAIN THING, LIKE, SPAGHETTI STRAPS SHOULDN'T, REALLY, BE WORN IN SCHOOLS, BUT THEY ARE NOT REALLY APPROPRIATE, BUT THAT SOME TANK TOPS ARE, DEPENDING ON THE WIDTH, LIKE, AGAIN, IT SHOULD BE SET UP BY THE COUNTY, LIKE, MAYBE, TWO FINGERS OR SO. WE, ALSO, DECIDED, FOR A DRESS CODE COMMITTEE, WHICH WOULD BE MADE UP OF THREE ADMINISTRATORS, THREE TEACHERS, AND THREE STUDENTS, AND THAT THEY WOULD SET UP THE GUIDELINES FOR THAT. I AM GETTING A LITTLE BIT AHEAD OF MYSELF. FOR THE DRESS CODE, HEAD COVERINGS, THE ONLY EXCEPTION SHOULD BE FOR RELIGIOUS REASONS OR MEDICAL REASONS, LIKE, IF A PERSON IS UNDERGOING CHEMOTHERAPY, AND THEY HAVE LOST THEIR HAIR, OR CERTAIN THINGS LIKE SHOES, CAN BE WORN, BECAUSE OF TENDER BONES AND WHAT ELSE. OKAY. BACK TO THE COMMITTEE. OKAY. GO ON.

WE, ALSO, PUT THAT WEARING UNDERGARMENTS WOULD BE REQUIRED. PEOPLE DO WEAR CERTAIN TYPES OF TANK TOPS, IT IS NECESSARY TO HAVE AN UNDER GARMENTENT UNDERNEATH.

FALL OUT.

BUT THEY SHOULD BE WORN AND NOT SEEN, SO THAT WE DON'T SEE ANY OF THE BRA STRAPS, BUT MAKE SURE THAT IT IS ALL WORN, AND WITH THE GUYS, THE BOXER SHORTS OR BRIEFS OR WHATEVER. FOR THE DRESS CODE COMMITTEE, MADE UP OF THE THREE ADMINISTRATORS, THREE TEACHERS AND THREE STUDENTS, THE STUDENTS WILL BE VOTED ON BY THE STUDENT BODY, AND IF THERE ARE NO VOLUME UNTEERTION THEN IT WILL BE APPOINTED BY THE SCHOOL GOVERNMENT OR STUDENT COUNCIL. -- VOLUNTEERS, THEN FLED TLED BE APPOINTED BY THE -- THEN IT WOULD BE APPOINTED BY THE STUDENT BODY OR STUDENT COUNCIL. FLIP THE PAGE. THEY SHOULD KNOW THAT THEY HAVE TO SUFFER THE PUNISHMENT, IF THEY DON'T FOLLOW THE DRESS CODE, AND IT IS BY THE COUNTY, AND THAT SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE HAS TO BE GIVEN BY THE ACCUSER, WHICH IS THE TEACHER OR ADMINISTRATOR, AND THEY HAVE THE BURDEN OF PROOF, AND THE PRIBS PAL IS THE PERSON -- AND THE PRINCIPAL IS THE PERSON THAT IS GOING TO MAKE THE APPROPRIATE PUNISHMENT AND WITNESSES CAN BE BROUGHT IN ON BOTH SIDES, AND THAT DOCUMENTATION IS NECESSARY BY THE TEACHER, SO THAT THERE IS NO CONFUSION AS TO WHAT HAPPENED, AND THAT IS ALL.

ALL RIGHT!

GOOD! [APPLAUSE]

BLUE DOTS. BLUE DOTS, STAND UP AND BE RECOGNIZED. BLUE DOTS. WHERE ARE THE REST OF THE BLUE DOTS. WONDERFUL! [APPLAUSE]

IN LISTENING TO THE REPORTS, I WAS STRUCK BY THE DIFFERENCES AND SOME OF THE COMMONALITIES THAT I HEARD. I WOULD LIKE TO GET THE FEEL FROM THE REST OF YOU. ONE COMMENT THAT WENT THROUGH WAS IT SEEMED LIKE SEVERAL OF YOU LIKED THE IDEA OF JOINT PARTICIPATION, BOTH IN THE FRONT ENDANT DISCIPLINE END -- FRONT ENDANT DISCIPLINE END, I GUESS, IN -- FRONT END, AND THE DISCIPLINE END, AND IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU COME UP WITH, A LOT OF GROUPS PUT THE TWO TOGETHER, IN DECIDING WHAT SHOULD BE THE PROPER PUNISHMENT FOR HAVING AN ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING, AND I, ALSO, NOTICED THERE WERE AT LEAST TWO OR THREE OF YOU OR FOUR THAT, MAYBE, HAD SOME KIND OF ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF THE REASON FOR HAVING THE CODE, ITSELF. WE HAD A PREAMBLE OR A PURPOSE, SOME KIND OF INTRODUCTORY STATEMENT THAT SAYS THIS IS WHY WE ARE DOING THIS, TO GIVE YOU SOME KIND OF GUIDANCE.

ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAD, BEING A LAWYER, IS THE PROBLEM OF VAGUENESS, BECAUSE I THINK THERE IS A COMMON PERCEPTION, WALKING INTO A PROBLEM LIKE THIS, THAT YOU CAN KIND OF DEFINE A VERY BROAD POLICY AND THEN WORK IT OUT, AS PROBLEMS COME UP, AND THE PROBLEM FROM THE DUE PROCESS ANGLE OF THAT, IS THAT YOU HAVE -- YOU CAN GET SUED AND YOU CAN LOSE, IF YOU ARE A SCHOOL, BECAUSE IF POLICY DOESN'T COMMUNICATE TO THE STUDENTS WHAT IS AND IS NOT PROTECTED, AND THEN YOU TRY TO SUSPEND THE STUDENT, BASED ON THAT POLICY, THEN YOU HAVE GOT REAL PROBLEMS, BUT THEN ONCE YOU HAVE GOT THE PROBLEM AND YOU HAVE GOT TO CLARIFY THINGS UP FRONT, THEN YOU HAVE GOT TO DEFINE EVERY SINGLE TERM IN THE UNIVERSE, AND THESE POLICIES TAKE FOUR OR FIVE OR SIX WEEKS TO COME UP WITH, AND EVERY PROBLEM YOU RESOLVE CREATES THREE MORE PROBLEMS IN THE APPLICATION. SO I THINK WHAT YOU SEE IN THE REALITY OF THE SCHOOL SITUATIONS IS THAT SCHOOLS, TYPICALLY, RESPOND TO THESE KINDS OF PROBLEMS BY WINGING IT, AND THEN HOPING THAT THEY DON'T GET SUED, OR WHEN THEY DO GET SUED, WORKING OUT SOME KIND OF SETTLEMENT THAT, THEN, GROPES TOWARD THE NEXT LAWSUIT, SIX MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD. BUT MAYBE THAT IS NOT A BAD THING, BECAUSE YOU, REALLY, ARE SORT OF SLOSHING TOWARD BETHLEHEM HERE. YOU ARE SLOSHING THROUGH TIME WITH WHAT WE LAWYERS CALL PRECEDENT, AND AT SOME POINT RESULTS IN THE ACCUMULATION OF WISDOM, OVER TIME, INTO A POLICY THAT MAKES SENSE, BUT ONE OTHER THING I JUST WANTED TO THROW IN THAT STILL BOTHERS ME, AS FIRST AMENDMENT LAWYER BOY, THE CONSTITUTION, ONE OF THE REASONS YOU HAVE THESE PROBLEMS IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE NONCONFORMANCE. YOU HAVE STUDENTS THAT WANT TO STEP OUTSIDE THE LINE. WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT IN OUR GROUP ABOUT THE GOTHS, AND I GUESS REF I SCHOOL HAS FIVE OR SIX OF THEM -- I GUESS EVERY SCHOOL HAS FIVE OR SIX OF THEM, AND ONE OF THE THING THAT BOTHERS HE IS THE COMMON THEME THAT SOMEONE STEPS OUT OF THE LINE TOO FAR, THEN THE COMMUNITY, AS A WHOLE, PARENTS PLUS ADMINISTRATORS PLUS TEACHERS, CAN DRAG THAT STUDENT BACK INTO THE MAINSTREAM, AND THAT IS A VERY DISTURBING THING, FROM A COUNTRY THAT WAS FORMED ESSENTIALLY TO PROTECT NONCONFORMITY, IN EVERY RESPECT. RELIGIOUS NONCONFORMITY AND POLITICAL NONCONFORMITY AND SOCIAL NONCONFORMITY, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS STRIKING IN OUR GROUP IS THAT THE STUDENTS HAVE THE SAME KIND OF PERCEPTION THAT MAYBE A LITTLE NONCONFORMITY IS A GOOD THING, BUT TOO MUCH, YOU HAVE GOT TO PULL THAT BE IN, SO IN THE COURSE OF THINKING ABOUT THIS STUFF, I URGE EVERYBODY TO SORT OF PONDER THE PROBLEM OF THE CONSTITUTION, WHICH IS THE PROBLEM OF THE LOAN DISSENTER STANDING IN THE WILDERNESS AND SCREAMING HIS HEAD OFF ON A SOAP BOX, AND THE COMMON SENSE RESPONSE, IN THIS COUNTRY -- THE COMMON RESPONSE, IN THIS COUNTRY, ANYWAY, HAS BEEN TO PROTECT HIM, NOT TO SHUT HIM UP OR GRAB HIM OFF THE SOAP BOX, NOT TO TEACH HIM HOW THE REST OF US ACT AND THINK AND SPEAK, SO IT MIGHT BE --

ON THAT FIRST POINT, WE HAD ONE OF OUR STUDENTS IN OUR GROUP, WE WERE QUITE AWAYS THROUGH THE PROCESS OF DECIDING WHAT TO DO AND THIS AND THAT AND THE OTHER, AND SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, WAIT A SECOND. THIS SOUNDS PRETTY GOOD, YOU KNOW, AND I CAN SEE HOW YOU DO IT, BUT IT DOESN'T WORK, AND I KNOW THERE IS A REASON IT DOESN'T WORK, BECAUSE WE HAVE THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE COME UP, AND I AM NOT SURE WHAT IT IS, BUT I KNOW THIS WON'T WORK, AND SO YOU DO HAVE THAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MAKING A RULE AND ACTUALLY HAVING IT ENFORCED, ON A REGULAR BASIS AND MAKE SOME SENSE OUT OF IT. BARBARA.

WELL, I STUDIED CON LAW AT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS DIFFERENT AT THE FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY. BUT I THINK WE GIVE UP GREATER RIGHTS. WE YIELD, FOR INSTANCE, IN EMINENT DOMAIN, THE FIFTH AMENDMENT, SOMETIMES THE GREATER GOOD IS WHERE THE CONCERN OF THE GOVERNMENT COMES BEFORE OUR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT THROUGHOUT OUR HISTORY.

BUT WHAT THAT SAYS IS YOU CAN'T TAKE MY PROPERTY, WITHOUT GIVING ME DUE PROCESS AND JUST COMPENSATION.

WHAT IS JUST COMPENSATION. YOU KNOW.

THEN I GUESS A JURY OF TWELVE PEOPLE GET TO DECIDE. THAT I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT. JUST LIKE ANY SOCIETY, WHATEVER SOCIETY YOU ARE IN, WE ARE ALWAYS BALANCING. MY RIGHT TO A FAIR TRIAL MAY CONFLICT WITH YOUR RIGHT TO REPORT ABOUT IT, PERHAPS. IT MAYBE A CONFLICT ABOUT THAT, WHETHER I GET A FAIR TRIAL, IF THERE IS A LOT OF PUBLICITY OR SOMETHING. WE ARE ALWAYS DOING THAT.

I JUST WANTED, ALSO, TO COMPLIMENT ALL OF THE STUDENTS. OF COURSE THE YELLOW DOT STUDENTS WERE THE BEST, BUT THE OTHER ONES DID AN ADMIRABLE JOB, AND THEY WERE REALLY GOOD ABOUT SPEAKING UP AND GIVING THEIR OPINION IN A WAY THAT DIDN'T OFFEND ANYONE AND OPENED UP DISCUSSION. IT WAS REALLY A PLEASURE. [APPLAUSE]

JUSTICE PARIENTE.

I WOULD LIKE TO SECOND. THAT I REALLY WANT TO SAY, TO ALL THE STUDENTS HERE, THAT YOU ARE ARTICULATE. YOU ARE CONFIDENT IN WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE, AND THAT THEREFORE, TEACHERS THAT ARE HERE, I WANT TO, ALSO, CONGRATULATE ALL OF YOU, FOR DOING SUCH A GREAT JOB, BUT I THINK THAT I JUST WANT TO ECOSOMETHING THAT PROFESSOR GUY IS SAYING, THAT I THINK, AS WE GO THROUGH WHAT THESE CODES ARE ABOUT, AND WHEN YOU WERE FORMULATING THEM, THAT THIS IDEA THAT WE SHOULD JUST HAVE A CERTAIN WAY OF DRESSING IN A SCHOOL, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE DONE ALWAYS, THAT IS -- WE HAVE A LITTLE HAD A DRESS CODE, SO IT -- WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD A DRESS CODE, SO IT IS A GOOD THING TO CONTINUE TO HAVE, AND MAYBE THE IDEA OF HAVING THESE DIALOGUES, WHERE EVERYONE FEELS FREE, THOUGH, TO EXPRESS WHAT THEIR POINT OF VIEW IS, AND I CAN'T EMPHASIZE ENOUGH, TOO, THAT THERE MAY BE THING THAT IS REQUIRE BALANCING, IF YOU HAVE GOT ISSUES SUCH AS IS IT GOING TO DISRUPT THE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT, BUT I WAS, ALSO, STRUCK, I THINK IN OUR GROUP, BY THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE SAID, WELL, IT WOULD BE OKAY TO HAVE THE CONFEDERATE FLAG, IF IT WAS IN LAKE CITY OR SOMEPLACE, MAYBE, WHERE EITHER THAT WAS MORE ACCEPTABLE, BECAUSE I GUESS THAT IS THEIR CITY FLAG, BUT, WELL, IT WOULDN'T BE APPROPRIATE IN A PLACE WHERE YOU HAVE GOT A PREDOMINANTLY AFRICAN-AMERICAN POPULATION, BUT WE HAVE GOT TO GO BACK TO THIS ISSUE THAT WE ARE NOT HERE TO PROTECT POPULAR SPEECH. THE FIRST AMENDMENT, REALLY, EXISTS TO PROTECT UNPOPULAR SPEECH, SO THE ONLY ISSUE, THEN, BECOMES, THAT IN THE SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT, HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT TO SAY THAT WE ARE GOING TO NOT, REALLY, MIMIC WHAT SHOULD BE GOING ON IN THE REST OF THE WORLD, FOR SOME OTHER GOOD, BUT THAT, IF WE, AS LAWYERS AND YOU, AS TEACHERS AND STUDENTS, IF WE REALLY WANT TO TEACH WHAT THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON AND WANTED TO TEACH ABOUT OUR CONSTITUTION, WE WANT TO TEACH ABOUT RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES, THEN WE, REALLY, DO HAVE TO TEACH ABOUT RESPECT. WE JUST CAN'T IMPOSE IT, AND SO I THINK THIS IS A GREAT LEARNING LESSON. I HOPE -- I HAVE LEARNED A LOT, AND REALIZING, TOO, THAT I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD HAVE STARTED MY DRESS CODE AND SAID, WELL, NO, OF COURSE WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE -- WE WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING ABOUT HAIR OR SOMETHING ABOUT BODY PIERCING, BUT THE STUDENTS SEEM TO BE UNANIMOUS, THAT THAT IS JUST A NONISSUE, AND SO I HAVE LEARNED SOMETHING, TODAY, THAT EVEN WHEN I SORT OF TAKE A SECOND LOOK AT SOMEBODY, BECAUSE I HAVE GOT ALL OF THOSE PIERCED PARTS ON THEIR FACE THAT, THAT IS JUST THEIR WAY OF EXPRESSING THEMSELVES, AND SO THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR THOUGHTS WITH US TODAY.

JUSTICE ANSTEAD.

WELL, THIS GIVES ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO, FIRST OF ALL, EXPRESS MY GREAT RESPECT AND ADMIRATION FOR ALL OF THE TEACHERS THAT ARE HERE. AWE OF US ON THE -- ALL OF US, ON THE COURT, ARE VERY SERIOUS ABOUT CHILDREN'S ISSUES, AND WE, REALLY, FEEL THAT TEACHERS OF THIS STATE AND THIS COUNTRY HAVE MORE INFLUENCE, WITH REFERENCE TO THE LIVES OF INDIVIDUALS, THAN ANY OTHER SINGLE GROUP OF PEOPLE, SO IT IS A CHANCE FOR ME TO SAY THANK YOU VERY MUCH, FOR TAKING CARE OF OUR CHILDREN. A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS, TOO, THE STUDENTS OUT THERE, AN EXPRESSION THAT I HEAR ALL THE TIME, THAT I COULDN'T DISAGREE WITH MORE, IS AN EXPRESSION THAT SAYS CHILDREN ARE OUR FUTURE. WELL, I DISAGREE WITH THAT, AND I SAY CHILDREN ARE OUR PRESENT. YOU ARE OUR PRESENT. AND ONE OF THE WONDERFUL THINGS ABOUT AN EXERCISE LIKE THIS, IS THAT I THINK IT IS AN IDEAL EXERCISE OF COMMUNITY. I WAS INITIALLY HEARING ABOUT THE SIZES OF SOME OF THE HIGH SCHOOLS, AND VERY DISTRESSED, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, ABOUT SOME OF THE HIGH SCHOOLS REPRESENTED HERE, THAT OVER 3,000 STUDENTS, SOME THAT ARE APPROACHING THAT NUMBER. I HAVE GREAT CONCERN, WHEN WE GO TO SIZE, OUT OF CONCERNS FOR ECONOMY AND EFFICIENCY AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, BUT TO THE STUDENTS, MOST OF ALL, I WANT TO SAY, YOU ALL ARE PART OF AN INDIVIDUAL COMMUNITY AT YOUR INDIVIDUAL SCHOOLS. YOU ARE THE DOMINANT FORCE IN THAT PARTICULAR COMMUNITY. YOU SET THE STANDARDS IN THAT PARTICULAR COMMUNITY. AND I WOULD URGE YOU ALL, AS YOU DID HERE, TODAY, IN THIS EXERCISE, TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR COMMUNITY, AT THOSE HIGH SCHOOLS, WHEREVER YOU ARE. THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, AND I THINK, HOPEFULLY, THIS KIND OF EXERCISE WILL BE REPRODUCED AND IS BEING REPRODUCED, IN EVERY SCHOOL AROUND THIS STATE, BECAUSE WHAT THIS DOES IS IT SHOWS THE WAY THAT COMMUNITIES, IDEALLY, DEAL WITH THEIR PROBLEMS, AND IDENTIFY PROBLEMS, AND COME TOGETHER. THIS IS WHAT HEALTHY COMMUNITIES DO, SO I HOPE THAT WHAT WE WILL SEE, PARTLY, OUT OF THIS, IS THAT THE TEACHERS THAT ARE HERE WILL TAKE THESE KINDS OF THINGS BACK TO THEIR SCHOOLS. I KNOW WONDERFUL THINGS ARE ALREADY GOING ON, IN MOST OF THE SCHOOLS, INSOFAR AS THE INTERACTION AND RESPECT BETWEEN THE TEACHERS AND THE STUDENTS. BUT I JUST SEE THIS IS AS A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL EXERCISE OF COMMUNITY. SO I SAY THANK YOU VERY MUCH, TO THE TEACHERS HERE, AND TO THE STUDENTS, I SAY RIGHT ON! KEEP IT UP. [APPLAUSE]

THANK YOU. I CAN TELL YOU ALL HAVE GONE ON AND ON ABOUT ALL OF THIS, JUDGING BY THE BUZZ IN THE COURTROOM WHEN YOU ALL CAME BACK. YOU WEREN'T FINISHED DISCUSSING IT TODAY, BUT I WANT TO THANK THE TEACHERS AND STUDENTS WHO CAME TO MAKE THIS A VERY INFORMATIVE AREA FOR OUR PARTICIPANTS AND THE JTI. THAT IS THE TEACHING INSTITUTE. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR COMING. DRIVE VERY CAREFUL ON YOUR WAY BACK. YOU WALKED ALL THE WAY FROM LEON HIGH? THAT IS GOOD. AND SUSAN HAS AN ANNOUNCEMENT TO MAKE, I CAN TELL.

WE NEED ANY OF THE KEY PADS THAT ANYBODY MIGHT HAVE.

LET ME REMIND YOU THAT THOSE THINGS ARE WORTH MORE THAN $300, SO IF YOU HAVE ONE OF THOSE RESPONDERS, WE NEED IT BACK FROM YOU! [LAUGHTER]

AND PLUS EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN A GREEN SHEET, IN THEIR SESSION, WHICH KIND OF GIVES YOU A LITTLE BIT OF THE STATE OF THE LAW BE IN THIS AREA, ALTHOUGH, AS I AM REMINDED BY MY PROFESSOR, IT IS VERY IFFY, ON SOME OF THESE THINGS, BUT AT LEAST IT HAS GIVEN YOU SOME OF THE CASES. IT MAY AND STARTING POINT, WHERE YOU CAN DO MORE RESEARCH ON THIS TOPIC, AND WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH, FOR COMING TODAY. [APPLAUSE]